Sin

[ATF90]

Is sin only sin if you know its sin and commit it intentionally?

Or can one commit sin even if they don't know it's a sin. Documentation please, it's for someone else.

This is Goldenchild17...

Edited October 7, 2004 by ATF90

[StColette]

Q: In another question, you mention the "usual conditions" for mortal sin. What are those?

A: The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: ‘Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.’ [RP 17 # 12]

The usual conditions are thus:

Grave matter
Full knowledge
Deliberate consent
Here is what the Catechism says as a synopsis of grave matter:

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: ‘Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother.’ [Mk 10:19] The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

What this means is that the Ten Commandments specify the categories to which grave matter applies. For example, "Thou shalt not steal" specifies the category of economics as one which, if abused, can have grave matter. "Thou shalt not bear false witness" specifies the category of truth telling, etc.

This does not mean every sin in every one of these categories is objectively grave. The sin can be rendered light through particular circumstance. According to the Church's standard moral teachings, stealing ten dollars from a billionaire who has little need of it would be a light sin, not a grave one, but stealing the same ten dollars from a peasant who needs it in order to avoid starving to death would be a grave sin. In the same way, telling a "little white lie" would usually be a venial sin, but perjuring yourself under oath and sending an innocent man to prison would be a grave one.

Concerning full knowledge and deliberate consent the Catechism states:

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart [cf. Mk 3:5-6; Lk 16:19-31] do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

What the Catechism says about feigned ignorance is important. Often times people refuse to investigate something or to look at evidence concerning what God wants of them in an attempt to "protect themselves" from knowing, and thus being obligated to do, something they don't want to do. In such cases, one is feigning ignorance rather than investigating the matter as one should. Only unintentional ignorance dimishes one's accountability for sin:

1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.

If the three conditions are not met then the sin is venial:

1862 One commits venial sin when, in a less serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law, or when he disobeys the moral law in a grave matter, but without full knowledge or without complete consent.

[url="http://www.cin.org/users/james/questions/q126.htm"]http://www.cin.org/users/james/questions/q126.htm[/url]

Venial Sin

Offense against God which does not deprive the sinner of sanctifying grace.

We can never accept even venial sin. St. Teresa of Avila said, “For the love of God, take care never to grow careless about venial sin, however small … There is nothing small if it goes against so great a sovereign.”

Deliberate venial sin weakens the spiritual powers, reduces our resistance to evil, and causes us to wander in our journey to the Cross. It is an illness of the soul, but not its supernatural death.

There are two situations in which we commit venial sin:

» We violate divine law with full or partial knowledge and consent.

» We disobey an objectively grave precept but due to invincible ignorance we think the obligation is not serious.

[url="http://www.secondexodus.com/html/catholicdefinitions/venialsin.htm"]http://www.secondexodus.com/html/catholicd...s/venialsin.htm[/url]

Venial and mortal sins - the deceptive distinction

Question As Catholics we believe that there are mortal sins and venial sins. The slight failings, if you could call them that, what are they for you? Are they sins?
Answer According to Catholic teaching, sin is sub-divided into greater sins, called mortal, and lesser sins, called venial (from Latin venia meaning pardon). Mortal sin is a grievous offense against the law of God. This sin is called mortal because it deprives of spiritual life and brings everlasting death and damnation on the soul. Venial sin is a slight offense against the law of God in matters of less importance, or in matters of great importance it is an offense committed without sufficient reflection or full consent of the will. Venial sin weakens the individual but it does not deprive him of spiritual life. There is no obligation to confess venial sins, which can be remitted through penance, attending mass and purgatory.

Catholic theologians appeal to the first epistle of John for biblical support for the distinction between mortal and venial sins: “If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death” (1 John 5:16,17). However, it can be shown that this passage does not prove the Catholic doctrine. Protestant author H.M. Carson explains:

“It will not do to appeal to the apostle John who speaks of ‘a sin unto death’ for this would prove too much. A mortal sin for Rome is one which can be forgiven, and for which therefore pardon should be sought. But the sin of which John speaks is one of such a serious character that he cannot even ask his hearers to pray for one who is guilty of it. It would seem therefore that he is referring to such a sin as apostasy, or final and persistent impenitence - the sin against the Holy Spirit for which the Lord says there is no forgiveness - and this is, in fact, recognized in the note in the Douay Version” (Carson H.M, Roman Catholicism Today, IVF, 1964, p. 93).

We readily admit that every sin is not equally serious and wicked, and that there will be degrees of punishment in hell (Luke 12:47,48). Murder is worse than an angry word; adultery is worse than a lustful look. However it is misleading to classify murder and adultery as mortal sins, while anger and a lustful look are classifed ‘venial’ - as if they are not sufficiently serious to be punishable in hell. I read a Catholic apologist who argues: “Denying this would be tantamount to saying that a white lie or a momentary pang of jealousy or lust (especially if unrepented of) is the moral equivalent in God's eyes of a torture, rape, and murder.”

Momentary lust may not be the strict moral equivalent of rape, but according to Jesus, the consequences of the lesser sin is not some sort of ‘temporal punishment.’ The consequences are eternal, just as it is for adultery. “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell” (Matthew 5:27-29).

The idea of venial sin may be very appealing since we always tend to minimize the seriousness of sin. Murder is definitely a mortal sin; being angry and calling someone a fool during a brawl would probably be classified "venial" by many Catholics. Again, we would do well to listen to Jesus for a proper evaluation of the seriousness of sin, rather than the wisdom of man: “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire” (Matthew 5:21,22). You need not murder to be in danger of damnation; it is enough to call your brother a fool to end up in hell.

Away with this dangerous idea of mortal and non-mortal sins! The wages of sin, whatever it may be, is death! A white lie is a lie nonetheless, whatever its particular colour. Pinching an object from the Supermarket and an organized bank robbery, both fall under the same category of stealing, the breaking of the eight commandment. Sin, any sin, is the defiance of the authority of God Almighty, and that’s what makes sin so serious.

Who knows how many Catholics are deceived by this dangerous and unbiblical doctrine about venial sins? They go about excusing themselves, indulging in ‘venial’ sins, falsely believing that they are not punishable by death and that they can remitted by a few acts of penance and the like. “The wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23).

Evangelical Christians take a very serious view of sin. To be sure, we often sin, sometimes very gravely. We have no delusions that we have arrived and we confess our sins daily to the heavenly Father, as our Lord taught us. Conscious of the redemptive work of Christ on our behalf, we strive to live in the light of righteousness and truth. “If we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:7-9).

The believer escapes the condemnation of hell not because he is sinless or because his sins are venial or light. He is saved from the eternal punishment he deserves because the blood of Jesus Christ keeps on cleansing him from all sin. Christians do not measure the weight of sin by penance, saying a few prayers, deeds of charity and attending church. The gravity of sin is measured by the price paid for our cleansing - the precious blood of Jesus! Therefore we avoid it like plague. We have been brought with a price and our heart’s desire is to glorify the God who loved us so much.

[url="http://www.justforcatholics.org/a159.htm"]http://www.justforcatholics.org/a159.htm[/url]

Mortal versus Venial Sin


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A serious, grave or mortal sin is the knowing and willful violation of God's law in a serious matter, for example, idolatry, adultery, murder, slander. These are all things gravely contrary to the love we owe God and, because of Him, our neighbor. As Jesus taught, when condemning even looking at a woman lustfully, sin can be both interior (choices of the will alone) or exterior (choices of the will carried into action). A man who willfully desires to fornicate, steal, murder or some other grave sin, has already seriously offended God by choosing interiorly what God has prohibited.

Mortal sin is called mortal because it is the "spiritual" death of the soul (separation from God). If we are in the state of grace it loses this supernatural life for us. If we die without repenting we will lose Him for eternity. However, by turning our hearts back to Him and receiving the Sacrament of Penance we are restored to His friendship. Catholics are not allowed to receive Communion if they have unconfessed mortal sins.

Venial sins are slight sins. They do not break our friendship with God, although they injure it. They involve disobedience of the law of God in slight (venial) matters. If we gossip and destroy a person's reputation it would be a mortal sin. However, normally gossip is about trivial matters and only venially sinful. Additionally, something that is otherwise a mortal sin (e.g. slander) may be in a particular case only a venial sin. The person may have acted without reflection or under force of habit. Thus, not fully intending the action their guilt before God is reduced. It is always good to remember, especially those who are trying to be faithful but sometimes fall, that for mortal sin it must not only be 1) serious matter, but 2) the person must know it is serious and then 3) freely commit it.

These two categories of sin are explicitly to be found in Sacred Scripture. In the Old Covenant there were sins that merited the death penalty and sins that could be expiated by an offering. This Law was a teacher that prepared the way for the faith (Gal. 3:24). In the New Covenant these material categories are replaced by spiritual ones, natural death by eternal death. There are thus daily faults for which we must daily ask forgiveness (Mt. 6:12), for even the "just man falls seven times a day" (Prov. 24:16), and mortal faults that separate the sinner from God (1 Cor. 6:9-10) for all eternity.

[url="http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/mortal_versus_venial.htm"]http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/mortal_versus_venial.htm[/url]


hehe hope this helps

God Bless,
Jennie Catherine

[Guest Aluigi]

not knowing something is wrong reduces your culpability. meaning, you are not fully responsible for that sin. but sin is always sin.

[goldenchild17]

Here's something else about sin...
I said...

[quote]I believe that there are certain sins that are serious enough to fully separate us from God. Of course, all sin separates us from God in a way. But there are some sins that fully rupture this relationship and cut us away from God.[/quote]

I was talking about mortal sin.

Then this was asked me. Where in the Bible does it say what kind of sins are mortal?


[quote]could you expound on this? What sins are bad enough to fully separate us from God? What is the Scriptural basis for this?[/quote]

[StColette]

We see in the scriptures, most specifically 1 John 5:16-17, that there are different types and degrees of sin:
“If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.” - 1 John 5:16-17

This is a wonderful example of the earliest understandings we, as a Church, held regarding not only the very real consequences of sinful acts, but, also, their effects on the entire community, and not just on the one who is sinning.

The “non-deadly” sins that the verse above is speaking about are what we refer to as venial. The “deadly” sins are known as mortal.

Venial sins are still serious, even though they are not as severe as mortal sins. With a venial sin, there can be reparation/atonement made, by the sinner, like when we say “I confess to almighty God…” at Mass, and then follow it up with “Lord have mercy. Christ have mercy. Lord have mercy.”

The mortal sins function to separate us from God’s grace in a different way. Mortal sins severely affect us and inhibit our chances of getting into Heaven. Some folks disagree with the idea that sins will keep us out of Heaven, they need to re-read passages like Rev 21:27, Heb 12:4, and 2 Cor 5:10.

We can’t exactly put together a list of every sin that is mortal or venial. Some venial sins can become mortal over time, depending upon a few different factors. As the Catechism outlines for us, for a sin to be mortal it must fulfill three criteria:
1. The sin must be of grave matter.
2. The sin must be committed with full knowledge.
3. The sin must be committed with complete consent.

Basically, venial sins might include yelling at your little brother, cutting people down, being overly sarcastic or disrespectful, and some lying.

Basically, mortal sins include drug abuse, drunkenness, cheating, stealing, taking the Lord’s name in vain, missing Sunday Mass, masturbation, premarital sex (including oral sex), some lying, and obviously murder, including abortion or assisting someone get an abortion.

Again, there are different conditions (the three listed above) that dictate whether a sin is venial or mortal, but rather than using those conditions as “loopholes” or justifications when we sin, we should use them as “x-rays” that reveal our internal heart and motivations…that will reveal our nature, conscience and, ultimately, our love for God.

[url="http://www.lifeteen.org/DocQandA.asp?Action=View&ID=854"]http://www.lifeteen.org/DocQandA.asp?Action=View&ID=854[/url]