Young Women As Altar Servers

[JP2Iloveyou]

I think I can add something here from a little experience. I have lived in various places around the United States and it just so happens that two of them are among the last three or four dioceses in this country that do not allow females to be altar servers: Lincoln, Nebraska and Arlington, Virginia. Now, I am not opposed to females being altar servers. The clear policy is that it is up to the local bishop. If that bishop feels there is a need for females to serve, then I have to trust his judgment. Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz of Lincoln and Bishop Paul Loverde feel that their sees do not need females servers at this time. Now, I do not know the statistics for Arlington, but I do know that Lincoln has over 30 seminarians right now which is as many as some dioceses with over 2 million Catholics. Lincoln has about 84,000 Catholics. You could also count me among Lincoln's seminarians. I am studying for my home diocese yet, I doubt highly that I would have discerned a call to the seminary had it not been for the influence of Lincoln and Bishop Bruskewitz. They are also leading the United States in young women entering the religious life.

On top of that, the girls and young women I know in Lincoln, which is quite a few, have no desire whatsoever to be altar servers. They are very happy with letting the boys do it. The Church does not look down on women or suppress them. The Church loves women as she loves men and wants to see both sexes in the roles God intended for them. To participate in Mass does not mean do any of the extraordinary ministries needed such as serve, lector, acolyte, Extraordinary Minister of the Eucharis, etc. It simply means to pray and sing with the congregation, and, if possible, to receive Communion.

[Dave]

I just had the impression that an institution of higher learning here was supposed to set an example. 

If only that were the case. :(

[BlondewithaBrain]

Whew…here I go again…I didn’t intend on this becoming a full-blown debate, because it is NOT likely this will ever happen. It is hard to justify my point of view any further; I feel I have said all I can say. I do believe in the Eucharist and in the truth of the Catholic Church, however to favor boys, so they can “do better” and put girls out of the picture is wrong, in MY opinion. I find it hard to believe that the Lord would reject young women at his altar, so that young men can become priests. Young men are CALLED to the priesthood, they don’t choose it because they like the view from the altar (even if they do). God will CALL these men to priesthood whether or not they “discern” while serving him on the altar. If one believes that the Lord alone calls young men to the priesthood, then the need to “discern” as an altar boy wouldn’t be an issue.

[Chastisement]

I used to be an atlar server, and I loved it, I really loved serving the Lord in that way, also, I was one of the senior alter severs so I got to do all the cool Good Friday and Easter and Christmas services.

When I got too old, and my paretns thought we were moving away I had to quit. However, a few years later I became an Euchraistic Minister for my school, and that was by far the greatest thing I've ever done in the church.

However, now I'm moving against it. I mean, its different everywhere, but today's alter girls are completely disrespectful to what theyr'e doing, they don't understand. Their conduct is disgraceful. They don't pay attention, they giggle and wave and smile at their boyfriends or whoever in the congregation, they wear inappropriate shoes AND the majority of them seem to put on the alter serving gowns that a tad too small, so it's nice and tight on their bodies. It's a disgrace. Some of them are in makeup and wear over enthused ear rings. Others have their hair messy or coloured with non-natural shades.

And I'm defintely against young teens and women being euchastic mnisters. I mean, one girl was told to put on a jersy by the Priest because she had a disgustingly skimpy shirt that was more like a belt around her breasts then a shirt. They wear tight pantaloons and tight tops and inappropriate shoes. I mean, they are there to serve the Lord, and while I beleive the Lord doesn't care what you wear, I think he woudln't be too happy if young women were flaunting themselves in public when handing out the Lord at Mass. I mean, I feel uncomfortable wearing a shirt that doesnt' come at least down to my elbows when I'm in mass. Long pantaloons or a long skirt, and covered in shoes, I mean, we're going to see the Lord and serve him, surely they can wear a bit more material and walk straight instead of swaying their hips when they serve him.

But as for it heardling in women preists, no way. Thats ridiciolous. Alter girls will not bring in women priests, I think that's just being paranoid. The church has been around since Christ himself, we aren't going to throw 2000 years of tradition down the drain on the say of a few feminists.

Edited September 30, 2003 by Chastisement

[cmotherofpirl]

When I was young I believed in equality in everything. I thought men and women were really the same and culture forced people into roles.

I am almost done raising a house full of children, and wow was I wrong. We are made different, think different and have different God given roles.

Many men feel the call of God as children, and being an altar boy is one step in the confirmation of their calling.

Boys today don't want to be altarboys because its no longer special for them, and girls are there.

What is wrong with exclusivity in the service of God?

[cmotherofpirl]

I also went to a Catholic girls college, and those nuns are the leaders for womens ordination as well.

THe colleges today ( with a few exceptions) are bastions of dissent.

[IXpenguin21]

i'm sorry, but i don't think the roll of women in the church is explained...

the church is the bride of christ...

if such is true... who can say women have insignificant rolls, when we as a church are figurativly the woman in the relationship w/ god? God provides for his bride, so should all men provide for all women. this example of god and church should be the model that men and women live through their day.

the church stands behind this claim as well!

its soul purpose is to serve women. no decision is made because 'women might get hungry to be priests' or something, rather decisions are made to better preserve the rolls of male and female, and preserve the balance in their relaitonships... so that women and men might complement themselves in their creating new men and women as God and the church bring new souls into salvation.

please, know that women are loved and served in the church at all times.

[morostheos]

BWAB,

I respect your right to voice your opinion. Not too long ago, I would have also vehemently opposed restricting girls from being altar servers. But saying you would think about leaving the Church over such a small issue, you have to expect people on a forum as orthodox as phatmass is to take serious issue with you and to voice their opinions as well.

I was pretty ambivalent about the whole issue of women priests for awhile, but then started doing some research as to why women shouldn't be priests, in addition to "Jesus was a man". Because the Catholic church is logical, there are always logical reasons in addition to the traditional reasons. The most convincing reason I found also applies well to why it would make sense for only males to be altar servers.

The reasoning was this: in the role of leading others in their spirituality and other things that priests do in general, women are actually more likely to be good at this. (Guys, no offense meant!!) Women are instinctively more nurturing because of their natural roles as mothers, so they would be great as mothers to an entire congregation, right? Well, no.

The thing is, since the beginning of time, women have emphasized to be gentle, forgive people, and care for them. If Jesus was a women, and was preaching this, would anyone have listened? Probably not, that's what women do already! There are many statistics that show women in general are more involved in religion than men. For example, traditionally, families assume the religion of the wife.

The importance of having male priests is the same as the importance of Jesus being a man. There needs to be a male role model of faith and morals that is clearly visible. Taking into account the natural tendency for women to be more involved in the church, just think how much more that would happen if many of the priests were female.

Now, I understand we are not debating the issue of female priests....sorry for the sidetrack, but to finally get to my point:

The whole concept can apply to altar servers as well. When you allow girls to be altar servers, the number of boys participating drastically drops. This eliminates public role models of young boys who are faithful. I remember once hearing a young boy say, "Why should I have to be an altar server? If I don't do it, the girls still will." The sense of duty for them is lost.

In Christ,

claire

also, here's the article that I got the "logical" arguement against female priests:

Women, Ordination, and Angels

[Aloysius]

going along with what u said about women being better at it

if a woman was a priest and was good at it, she would be relying on her natural talents as a woman.

however, if a man is a priest and is good at it, he's more likely to be relying on God's grace rather than his own talent.

i never thought that way before, but i think that's another valid point.

anyway, yeah this is more about altar servers, and as far as im concerned they could be either male or female, however i would rather have male ones and it would not be wrong of the Catholic Church to restrict it to only male servers.

[jess]

I was an altar server for about two or three years when i was in elementary school. most of our servers are young girls because of the lack of interest from boys. I found mass more interested being able to participate in it at a different level.

Jess

[Norseman82]

Remember, even the soldiers prophesied, "If it is not of God it will fall on it's own.  But if it is, then you might find yourself fighting against God!"  (not sure if that is exactly what was said - but the meaning is sound).

That was Gamaliel at the end of Acts 5...

[Winchester]

Blonde,

Just to clarify: You're saying you would leave the Church over a disciplinary matter? I don't understand the reasoning here. Do you believe the Catholic Church is the One True Church? If yes, then would you not have to submit to her will, since she is perfect and you are not? If no, then why are you in the Church currently?

[BLAZEr]

The reasoning was this:  in the role of leading others in their spirituality and other things that priests do in general, women are actually more likely to be good at this. (Guys, no offense meant!!)  Women are instinctively more nurturing because of their natural roles as mothers, so they would be great as mothers to an entire congregation, right?  Well, no.

The thing is, since the beginning of time, women have emphasized to be gentle, forgive people, and care for them.  If Jesus was a women, and was preaching this, would anyone have listened? Probably not, that's what women do already!  There are many statistics that show women in general are more involved in religion than men.  For example, traditionally, families assume the religion of the wife.

The importance of having male priests is the same as the importance of Jesus being a man.  There needs to be a male role model of faith and morals that is clearly visible.  Taking into account the natural tendency for women to be more involved in the church, just think how much more that would happen if many of the priests were female.

Claire,

Think this is a brilliant line of thought, really brings up an interesting point, but it seems like a definition seeking a word . . . in other words: Its a nice idea but it just doesn't get to the heart of what the priesthood is. It seems to place too great an emphasis on women's religious affinity as a reason for Christ being a man and the priesthood being masculine. I'm sorry, but I don't think God made Christ a man just because no one would listen to a woman.

Instead, I think CS Lewis (who wasn't even a Catholic) makes the best point in suggesting why its necessary for the priest to be a man. He also makes the best point for why Christ MUST be a man. You can read his essay here:

http://huey.cc/dunstan/PriestessesintheChurch.HTM

I also find it interesting that we keep saying that this isn't a debate about women priests. I would disagree. I think that is exactly what it is and that is why so many people have read this thread and posted to it. Whether we choose to acknowledge it or not, this discussion has tread so closely to the women's ordination question because it is NATURAL for us to associate the Altar Server with the Priest. Even the most orthodox among us suggest that "having girl altar servers won't lead to women's ordination." Yet each us says this with bated breath because we know that that's exactly where the logical end of this habit will lead us. Girl altar servers are a human invention . . . and so if left to our human understanding we would follow this line of "inclusion" all the way to to its logical end. Thank God the Church is not merely human.

I think its an interesting testament to Bishop Bruskewitz and the "boy only" policy in Lincoln that Lincoln is leading (per capita) in the number of Priests AND nuns . . . (by the way, just to make it clear, the decision to allow female altar server does not rest only with the bishop, it rests with the priest. An individual pastor can decide not to let girls be Altar Servers and his bishop can do nothing about it.)

Now, BlondewithaBrain, I think you have the whole Church thing upside down.

God doesn't reject girls serving the Altar. God doesn't reject anyone. He also didn't put them there. We did! And maybe, just maybe, we were wrong. This is not a teaching ex cathedra it is a discipline that started in the United States not Rome.

Second, you misunderstand God's call. It doesn't happen regardless of the surroundings a man finds himself in, it happens BECAUSE of the surroundings a man finds himself in. God calls many many men to the priesthood, but so many can't hear the Call because of the things around them. Be that a difficult family situation, or a job that pays well, or a girlfriend they just can't leave . . . a vocation is not an indelible and unavoidable call . . . it is easily avoidable. Maybe the reason we have so few priests is because more boys aren't serving at the altar . . .

[Cure of Ars]

I don’t think that girl’s should be alter servers for two reasons. The first is that is sends a mixed message that one-day women will be priests.

The second is that men are naturally weaker spiritually than women. For some reason it is easier for women to be spiritual. There have been more women saints than men saint. And if you look at who is present at Mass (at least where I am from) there are always more women present. I could continue with these examples but I wont. Men have the need to have responsibilities. We need a special role. We are more task oriented while women are more relationship oriented. Let me use a example. The male role in families has been greatly reduced in the family in our society because men have been told that their role is not essential. That woman can do it on their own and look what happened. We have en epidemic of fatherless ness. Men are presently confused about their role and they do not feel like they are really essential to child rearing. Because of this they do not perticipate and they remain selfish Peter pans. Our society does not really know what a father is. And I believe this trend will continue with alter serving.

With this being said I submit to my present Bishop who allows female alter servers.

[cmotherofpirl]

Absolutely true Cure.