BLAZEr Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Still you have not answered the questiong Blonde, do you believe that the Church teaches God's Truth? Do you believe in the Body and Blood of Jesus in the Eucharist? If you do, why would you leave over something as irrelevant as whether or not girls are altar servers . . . what if no girls wanted to be altar servers, none and the Church said "no altar servers" would you leave then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 I would leave the church because I feel that restricting young women from serving their Lord on the altar is unreasonable, and moreso, the catholic church's justification of doing so is not valid for me. So you're saying you want to serve God on your terms rather than His terms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 I would leave the church because I feel that restricting young women from serving their Lord on the altar is unreasonable, and moreso, the catholic church's justification of doing so is not valid for me. So in other words... You would leave the Church because it didn't taylor to your feelings and desires for humanity. I'm sorry to break the news to you. Christ's Church was established so that we might conform to it. We must become the Bride of Christ. It MUST not conform to us. Leaving the Church based on your "feelings" is a no-no. Human feelings are biased and pron to sin. The Church is not. You will be doing your imortal soul a HUGE disgrace by leaving based on this DISCIPLINE. Luther left because of an erroneous practice. Be like St. Francis! If you "feel" that this "restriction" would be in error, don't LEAVE. Stay and wait it out. Pray for the Church leaders, don't leave them! Remember, even the soldiers prophesied, "If it is not of God it will fall on it's own. But if it is, then you might find yourself fighting against God!" (not sure if that is exactly what was said - but the meaning is sound). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 so why would it be an issue? why would one get angry over somethign like this? i think this is not worth getting angry over. if they say no girl altar servers. okay no girl altar servers. we are all called to be obedient. any opinion i had i would double check and make it sure it agrees with the truth of hte Catholic Church. opinions can't really compare to the teachings , disciplines and traditions of the Catholic Church. and alter serving is not the only option girls have in serving God. God bless! +JMJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 I would leave the church because I feel that restricting young women from serving their Lord on the altar is unreasonable, and moreso, the catholic church's justification of doing so is not valid for me do you not have faith that the Cathlic Church teaches truth? there is no good reason for leaving the Catholic Church. for it is only there truth can be found. God BLess! +JMJ JOhn Chapter Six: 66-69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Michael Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 If being an altar boy was considered to be a stepping stone to the priesthood, why not do the same thing with being an altar girl, except to be a stepping stone to becoming a nun? Last I checked, the sisterhood wasn't pulling in high numbers of new vocations either. Sometimes when dealing with Church discipline, I gotta ask myself: What would Jesus think? And I think he would allow altar servers of either gender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 (edited) yeah, that's what all the women's ordination people say "Jesus wouldn't want to exclude anyone" . . . it's not about exclusion its about our roles as the body of Christ . . . but I do give you big ups for the idea that we need something thats a stepping stone for the Sisterhood . . . the problem is that most of the crazy communities around today are hardly inspirational for a girl . .. and besides . . no nuns are up on the altar . . . so what does that say to girls 'Let's give you a training program that is completely different from what we want you to become." Edited September 29, 2003 by BLAZEr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 If being an altar boy was considered to be a stepping stone to the priesthood, why not do the same thing with being an altar girl, except to be a stepping stone to becoming a nun? Last I checked, the sisterhood wasn't pulling in high numbers of new vocations either. Sometimes when dealing with Church discipline, I gotta ask myself: What would Jesus think? And I think he would allow altar servers of either gender. There WAS a stepping stone. It was called, being taught by Sisters in School. I don't know what happened to that idea. Maybe there are Sisters teaching now? But it certainly isn't what it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper4DaHolyG Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 I understand were ur coming BWAB! AND I AM NOT EVEN CATHOLIC! hahahah.... I feel sorry for you getting critisised about your faith, hey it happens! I think that females can be as key not speakers as males can be! oh and go RELIENT K! I am hopefully seeing em in January! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Trooper, if someone is saying something that is at odds with what is true, don't you think we're justified in telling them, "No, that's not the way it is!"? I mean, would you keep silent if a kid said, "2+2=3"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Trooper, it's gonna be hard for you to understand this discussion if your not Catholic, but I think you're gonna help us get to the heart of some things . . . I feel sorry for you getting critisised about your faith, hey it happens!There's a big difference between Protestants and Catholics here and it has to do with Tradition. Catholics do not believe it is "our" faith . . . we believe that the Faith is Christ Himself and all his teachings and that we hold to the Faith, but we do not own it. We cannot change it. And that it exists and is true whether we were to believe it or not. That's why we believe that faith is a gift that we either reject or accept. It comes from God, not from ourselves. I think that females can be as key not speakers as males can be! This is always the argument made for ordaining women. That women can be just as good at preaching or teaching or reading or studying or praying or counseling or forgiving as any male priest. I happen to agree with this statement. And if the priesthood were based on these things I would be all for ordaining women. But unfortunately the priesthood is not based on these things it is based on the PERSON of Jesus Christ. And the one thing that women cannot do better than men no matter how hard they try is: BE A MAN. Since the Priesthood of Christ is intrinsically tied to the person of Christ the priest is supposed to represent Christ to us as much as possible. And only a man can represent Christs masculinity, his sonship, God's Fatherhood . . . So the question isn't whether women can do actions or jobs as good as a man. The question is whether women can actually be men . . . Think of the same thing the other way around. Men can be just as loving and nurturing and caring and compassionate as any woman, but they can't have kids . . . so no matter how hard a man tries, he can never be a mother . . . For Catholics, religion isn't just a matter of what you think. Its a matter of what you ARE. We are children of God called to serve him in this world according to our natures as man or woman. And God only calls men to His priesthood. It's not like God owes us anything, man or woman . . . so why would we think that any of us DESERVE the priesthood out of some false sense of equality . . . We're lucky God gives us male priests . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Amen, BLAZEr! Great job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThereseFlower Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Hoo boy. I dunno if I should stick my neck out here 'cause I am a greenhorn, but here it goes anyway. :ph34r: Because I am new to being something resembling faithful, my faith is definitely NOT perfect. I don't believe anyone's is. It is a flaw of being human, I suppose. But one thing I DO have a problem with is the idea that the Church teaches the real Truth. If the Church teaches the Truth in that women should have a limited role in terms of serving the altar, I often wonder what would happen at my school. I go to an all-female Catholic college. Our altar servers are nothing but female. The only male aspect of our Masses is the celebrant himself. I am not saying that the Church should conform to us, but I somehow feel that it is going against what my Catholic college is all about: women having a voice, women being fully involved in our faith. We have nuns from the RSHM (Religious of the Sacred Heart of Mary, the founding order of my school), and many are FOR women in the priesthood. They are moderately feminist and are a teaching order. How is it that what my school has been teaching might somehow conflict with the very Church it was founded within? Ugh. I hope I don't start having another crisis of my faith because of this. peace, ~TF~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I am not saying that the Church should conform to us, but I somehow feel that it is going against what my Catholic college is all about: women having a voice, women being fully involved in our faith. We have nuns from the RSHM (Religious of the Sacred Heart of Mary, the founding order of my school), and many are FOR women in the priesthood. They are moderately feminist and are a teaching order. How is it that what my school has been teaching might somehow conflict with the very Church it was founded within? Those nuns at your school ought not to be supporting women's ordination. To do so is objectively gravely sinful. But unfortunately, too many Catholic colleges these days have faculty that are less than orthodox. The same is true of too many religious orders. It's tragic that you can't always trust Catholic colleges and religious orders to be Catholic in more than just name, but that's how it is. Thus, you really have to be careful. Stick with what the Church says, not with what feminist proponents of women's ordination say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThereseFlower Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Thanks Dave--what you've said is helpful. ^_^ It is so troubling for me in that my school, although since it has merged with Fordham University is a LOT MORE orthodox than it used to be, it still seems kind of... fake... sometimes. It makes me so sad... how can I find a spiritual guide in a place that is more Catholic in tradition than in practice? Sorry... don't mean to hijack the topic here. I just had the impression that an institution of higher learning here was supposed to set an example. peace, ~TF~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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