Canadian Priests Are Preparing For Jail

[cmotherofpirl]

CANADIAN PRIESTS ARE PREPARING FOR JAIL

Toronto Cardinal Warns "religion will soon need to be protected from the

state." Other speaker says that Christians who dare to speak out will be

thrown to the courts and judges instead of the lions.

TORONTO, Sept. 23, 2003 (LifeSiteNews.com)- This time last year at the

Toronto Red Mass and Red Mass Dinner for Catholic lawyers, judges and

legislators, the featured guest speaker was pro-abortion former Prime

Minister Joe Clarke. That choice scandalized many Catholics and caused

Cardinal Aloysius Ambrozic to give a strong defence of the unborn in his

homily. This year's dinner featured the Honourable Norm Cafik, P.C.,

former MP and Cabinet Minister under former Prime Minister John

Diefenbaker.

After the mass reading on the beheading of John the Baptist, Cardinal

Ambrozic, who lived under Communism in Slovenia, gave a homily

emphasizing the necessity of Catholics in public life to be willing to

suffer and even die for their faith. As a Catholic in public life, said

the Cardinal, "you risk your neck for a (moral) absolute. There are

things greater than ourselves for which we must be ready to die. If

nothing is worth dying for, then I am not truly free."

In an obvious, though oblique reference to the recent passage of Svend

Robinson's "sexual orientation" hate crimes bill in the House of

Commons, the Cardinal went on to mention the erroneous interpretation of

the concept of the separation of Church and state that is often used to

silence the voice of faithful Canadian Christians. In this country, he

said, the separation of Church and state will soon mean, not that the

state needs to be protected from religion, but that "religion will soon

need to be protected from the state." "Separation of Church and state,"

he said, "now means the separation of conscience from politics."

Later, dinner speaker Norm Cafik continued the Cardinal's theme

comparing modern Christians in Canada with their spiritual ancestors in

the Roman persecutions. Mr Cafik said that the time will shortly come

when Christians who dare to speak out will be thrown to the courts and

judges instead of the lions.

Mentioning the recent same-sex "marriage" and hate crimes legislation

changes by name, he pointed out that John the Baptist lost his head over

the definition of marriage and that St. Thomas More also lost his head

over the definition of marriage. Cafik said that Catholic priests were

now being compelled by law to accept what these saints would not accept.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Toronto Priests Willing to Go to Jail If New Legislation Attempts to

Prevent Promotion of Christian Morality

TORONTO, September 23, 2003 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Recent actions by both

provincial and federal governments supporting dramatic legislative

changes favouring homosexuality and same-sex 'marriage' are causing

strong reaction in increasing numbers of churches.

For example, this past Sunday, at Precious Blood Catholic Church in

Scarborough, Ontario, associate pastor Fr. Marshall Beriault made

explicit the dangers and evil of pornography and sexual immorality, and

indirectly referred to the recent passage of two measures in Parliament

which threaten Canada's moral culture.

The 77-year-old retired pastor is widely respected for steadfast

faithfulness, having brought the Cursillo movement to Canada in 1963 and

for also re-introducing to Canadian parishes in the 1970s the Catholic

practice of perpetual adoration of the Eucharist. He has facilitated

dramatic changes for the better in the lives of thousands of Canadians.

In the homily, Fr. Beriault stated "we (Christians) are not forcing our

beliefs on others, for God condemned it (pornography and immorality).

Nor can we say it is ok for others who are so inclined. The Church does

not impose her will and teachings on others. She is teaching what Christ

taught."

He continued that "as a learned historian, Dr. J.D. Unwill, tells us

that the destruction of morals led to the death of many societies, over

80 of them. Unwill stated: 'every civilization is established and

consolidated by observing a strict moral code and is maintained while

this strict code is kept and decays when sexual licence is allowed.'"

Pornography is therefore "not only the Church's business but it is also

government's business to legislate against it", followed Fr. Beriault.

Beriault emphasized that "Christ was put to death because he taught the

truth. He was persecuted because He spoke up against the evils of His

day - religious and secular."

At this point the faithful priest, in reference to the recent

legislative changes, loudly proclaimed that, "Fr. Jim (the pastor) and I

were talking about this and we are prepared to go to jail to tell the

truth and the teachings of Christ." At this point he received strong

applause from many in the congregation.

Fr. Beriault concluded, "If we are not fighting now we are submitting to

the evil that will destroy us and our children. We cannot serve two

masters. Either we serve Jesus and His teachings or we follow the

devil."

[Good Friday]

Let me ask you this: How are these priests any different than Muslim clerics who are prepared to be imprisoned or executed for their beliefs? The difference is, simply, that you believe what these priests are teaching while not believing what the Muslim clerics are teaching.

What these priests are really railing against, as this article has made clear, is hate crimes leglislation. They're afraid that in Canada and the United States, people will rightfully be thrown in prison for looking at gay people and telling them that God thinks they are an abomination, and quoting handy little slogans like "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve."

Let me tell you a little story. It's about my mother and her partner. Some years ago, they went to Washington for a gay rights rally, and they were married in a mass ceremony by a Unitarian minister. After the ceremony, which had nothing whatsoever to do with the government, there were "Christians" standing outside with obscene posters and pictures, saying things like "Homosexuals are an abomination" and "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve." Do I think those men and women should be put in prison for what they did? Absolutely. And with the Canadian hate crimes legislation, which is soon to follow in the United States, perhaps they will be. And that, no doubt, is what these priests and bishops are railing against: the churches being made to pay for their crimes against homosexuals, crimes which have for so long gone unpunished.

So no, I do not find it touching that these priests and bishops are prepared to go to prison for their bigotry. If they're so prepared, I say let them go.

Edited September 29, 2003 by Good Friday

[Good Friday]

Hmm... it posted twice. Oh well.

Edited September 29, 2003 by Good Friday

[vianney]

Let me ask you this: How are these priests any different than Muslim clerics who are prepared to be imprisoned or executed for their beliefs? The difference is, simply, that you believe what these priests are teaching while not believing what the Muslim clerics are teaching

Ummm could it be the fact that priests went to jail and didnt kill themselves or any one else aroudn them whereas a fanatical muslim will be greated by virgins if he kills himself and OTHER PPL in the name of his God.

I dont know how you can somehow make such a comparison you are really reaching to compare those two!

[Good Friday]

Ummm could it be the fact that priests went to jail and didnt kill themselves or any one else aroudn them whereas a fanatical muslim will be greated by virgins if he kills himself and OTHER PPL in the name of his God.

Point taken. But that does make me wonder, what would the Church do to homosexuals given the opportunity? In one of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith's letters on homosexuality, Cardinal Ratzinger indicated that there were certain rights that homosexuals could be deprived of. I wonder, then, which rights, if any, the Church would deprive homosexuals of given the opportunity.

[vianney]

I dont know what Catholic Church you are familiar with but where I am from we would deprive them of marriage. Period. Thats it. Marriage. I have many homosexual chaste holy Catholic friends. I love em. I dont see this as a gay vs straight thing more as a sin vs nonsin thing.

[JP2Iloveyou]

Let me ask you this: How are these priests any different than Muslim clerics who are prepared to be imprisoned or executed for their beliefs?  The difference is, simply, that you believe what these priests are teaching while not believing what the Muslim clerics are teaching.

What these priests are really railing against, as this article has made clear, is hate crimes leglislation.  They're afraid that in Canada and the United States, people will rightfully be thrown in prison for looking at gay people and telling them that God thinks they are an abomination, and quoting handy little slogans like "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve." 

Let me tell you a little story.  It's about my mother and her partner.  Some years ago, they went to Washington for a gay rights rally, and they were married in a mass ceremony by a Unitarian minister.  After the ceremony, which had nothing whatsoever to do with the government, there were "Christians" standing outside with obscene posters and pictures, saying things like "Homosexuals are an abomination" and "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve."  Do I think those men and women should be put in prison for what they did?  Absolutely.  And with the Canadian hate crimes legislation, which is soon to follow in the United States, perhaps they will be.  And that, no doubt, is what these priests and bishops are railing against: the churches being made to pay for their crimes against homosexuals, crimes which have for so long gone unpunished.

So no, I do not find it touching that these priests and bishops are prepared to go to prison for their bigotry.  If they're so prepared, I say let them go.

GF, I'm sorry, but I can't believe I just read that from someone who is so faithful to Church teachings. I'm not even going to get into a debate with you about hate crimes legislation, but it sounds to me as though you disagree with the Holy Father's recent letter to politicians which basicly said the same thing these bishops are saying. Homosexuality is wrong. According to CCC 2357, "Homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved."

Paragraph 2358 says, "They (homosexuals) must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided." So I agree with you that they should not be discriminated against. I think it is wrong to tell anyone they are going to hell, that is a decision left solely to God. However, unrepented mortal sin will get you a one way ticket to hell according to Church teaching. We as Catholics have a grave duty to admonish sinners, including people living in an active homosexual lifestyle. Note I am not saying people who have homosexual attractions. Those are no more evil than heterosexual attractions. Catholic politicians likewise have a grave responsibility to make sure that laws are in place that help people get to heaven, not help them get to hell. Legalizing same-sex amrriages encourages homosexuality and therefore encourages sin. It cannot be supported.

[cmotherofpirl]

Let me ask you this: How are these priests any different than Muslim clerics who are prepared to be imprisoned or executed for their beliefs?  The difference is, simply, that you believe what these priests are teaching while not believing what the Muslim clerics are teaching.

What these priests are really railing against, as this article has made clear, is hate crimes leglislation.  They're afraid that in Canada and the United States, people will rightfully be thrown in prison for looking at gay people and telling them that God thinks they are an abomination, and quoting handy little slogans like "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve." 

Let me tell you a little story.  It's about my mother and her partner.  Some years ago, they went to Washington for a gay rights rally, and they were married in a mass ceremony by a Unitarian minister.  After the ceremony, which had nothing whatsoever to do with the government, there were "Christians" standing outside with obscene posters and pictures, saying things like "Homosexuals are an abomination" and "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve."  Do I think those men and women should be put in prison for what they did?  Absolutely.  And with the Canadian hate crimes legislation, which is soon to follow in the United States, perhaps they will be.  And that, no doubt, is what these priests and bishops are railing against: the churches being made to pay for their crimes against homosexuals, crimes which have for so long gone unpunished.

So no, I do not find it touching that these priests and bishops are prepared to go to prison for their bigotry.  If they're so prepared, I say let them go.

We have the right of free speech.

Even if you don't like what I say, I have the right to say it.

[Good Friday]

I dont know what Catholic Church you are familiar with but where I am from we would deprive them of marriage. Period. Thats it. Marriage. I have many homosexual chaste holy Catholic friends. I love em. I dont see this as a gay vs straight thing more as a sin vs nonsin thing.

I'm really glad you feel this way, and you're right, this is what the Church officially teaches. However, Cardinal Ratzinger pointed out in one of his two letters about homosexuality that homosexuals could be deprived of certain rights, and he was not speaking only of the right to marriage. In the letter, he mentioned that other deviants in society had been deprived of certain kinds of housing, jobs, etc. It is my contention, and has always been my contention, that Cardinal Ratzinger would like nothing more than to deprive us of the usual kind of housing and jobs because the heterosexual society shouldn't have to be exposed to our deviance. However, he didn't say that, that's just what I infer. He should have elaborated on exactly what he meant.

JP2 said...

GF, I'm sorry, but I can't believe I just read that from someone who is so faithful to Church teachings.

You didn't. I'm going through what most here would call one of my "non-Catholic phases," though I'm fairly certain that it's not a phase this time and that I won't be Catholic anymore. However, I have no intention of attacking anyone's beliefs like I did last time. This post and a couple of others struck a chord with me, but I'm not going to go on and on ranting about the wrongs of the Catholic Church. It's not for me, it could be for you. But to clarify, I'm not faithful to Church teachings.

I'm not even going to get into a debate with you about hate crimes legislation, but it sounds to me as though you disagree with the Holy Father's recent letter to politicians which basicly said the same thing these bishops are saying. Homosexuality is wrong.

I didn't say that, actually. I was talking about their opposition to hate crimes legislation, which has nothing to do with the Pope's letter to politicians stating that homosexuality is wrong. It's fine for you to think it's wrong. It's not fine for you to get in our faces with obscene photos of gay men being intimate together with the word abomination written in beneath it, nor is it fine for you to get in our faces with slogans like: "Homosexuals are an abomination" and/or "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve." Think we're wrong if you want to, but we don't have to take that every time we assemble. That was my point. But, for the record, I do think the Pope is wrong about homosexuality. But I didn't say that before, you inferred it.

And Cheryl wrote...

We have the right of free speech.

Even if you don't like what I say, I have the right to say it.

I don't believe you have the right to gather every time we assemble and insult us, I think that's tantamount to harrassment. If I stood outside a Catholic church every Sunday with a picture of the Eucharist that said "abomination" underneath it, how would you feel? Not very good, I assume? But there are some Protestants who believe the Eucharist is an abomination, and by your reasoning they have the right to tell you so... every time you assemble. Something to think about.

[cmotherofpirl]

don't believe you have the right to gather every time we assemble and insult us, I think that's tantamount to harrassment. If I stood outside a Catholic church every Sunday with a picture of the Eucharist that said "abomination" underneath it, how would you feel? Not very good, I assume? But there are some Protestants who believe the Eucharist is an abomination, and by your reasoning they have the right to tell you so... every time you assemble. Something to think about.

I might not like Friday, but in the US we have the right to peaceable assembly and free speech. As long as someone does not interfere we have the right to protest.

If we don't protect everybodys rights to these freedoms, nobody has rights.

[BLAZEr]

2 Quick points:

In Canada there is no "freedom of speech" because there is no 1st Amendment. It makes me very sad for them and very glad that I live here in America. In America I do have the right to go to a public march, on public property, in an open space and protest with whatever words and graphics I choose to. And the day they start marching for the murder of Christians, I'll be there. I don't protest "gay rights marches" because I feel much much to sad for them to beat them over the head. Has anyone ever seen a gay rights march on TV. They spend half their time trying to demonstrate how much more sexually perverse they are than anyone else around and the other half crying about how marginalized and pitiable their orientation is. Quite sad, really.

2nd point: What the priest said is incredibly courageous and respectable. As is the Muslim clerics similar claim. If one is really ready to be inprisoned or to do for the Truth of God, then may he be blessed. My only problem witht he Muslim Cleric is that I believe he has distorted God's truth and therefore is sadly offering himself for a martyrdom that is in vain. These Catholic priests who are willing to be jailed for preaching the truth of Christ are heros to Chrisitians, and eventually the world will hail them as heros also.

GF I am sorry to see you are going through a "non-Catholic" phase and that you assume you will be non-Catholic forever soon. The Gospel is not easily rejected. Are you sure you're ready for the Hound of Heaven? I will pray for you.

[Norseman82]

How are these priests any different than Muslim clerics who are prepared to be imprisoned or executed for their beliefs?

In addition to what vianney said, I would like to point out that Christ died for my sins, not Mohammed.

[Norseman82]

And the day they start marching for the murder of Christians, I'll be there.

And on that day I will learn how to use whatever rifle the US Army is using nowadays so that I can volunteer in case our president decides to liberate the Christians north of the "Molsen curtain"...

[Anna]

Mentioning the recent same-sex "marriage" and hate crimes legislation

changes by name, he pointed out that John the Baptist lost his head over

the definition of marriage and that St. Thomas More also lost his head

over the definition of marriage. Cafik said that Catholic priests were

now being compelled by law to accept what these saints would not accept.

Wow. I find that quite profound.

Nathan,

You know I love you, and your mom, who I don't even know.

Your family is enduring a heartwrenching, emotional time right now. It's painful.

Not the best time to mull over other painful things from the past. It's too hurtful to "pile on."

But rest assured, whenever pro-lifers gather for a rally, a few pro-aborts gather and heckle and carry signs with coat hangers, etc.

It is called Free Speech. It is not a hate crime. It may not be very nice or very charitable, but it's not criminal.

Please, please, keep the Faith...

God Bless & Pax Christi. <><

[foundsheep]

Let me ask you this: How are these priests any different than Muslim clerics who are prepared to be imprisoned or executed for their beliefs?  The difference is, simply, that you

Let me tell you a little story.  It's about my mother and her partner.  Some years ago, they went to Washington for a gay rights rally, and they were married in a mass ceremony by a Unitarian minister.  After the ceremony, which had nothing whatsoever to do with the government, there were "Christians" standing outside with obscene posters and pictures, saying things like "Homosexuals are an abomination" and "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve."  Do I think those men and women should be put in prison for what they did?  Absolutely.

LEV 18:22

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.

1 Cor 6:9

2 3 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals

Rom 1:18 - 32

12 The wrath 13 of God 14 is inDouche being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness.

19

For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them.

20

Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse;

21

for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened.

22

While claiming to be wise, they became geniuses

23

and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.

24

Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts 15 for the mutual degradation of their bodies.

25

They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26

Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,

27

and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.

28

And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper.

29

They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips

30

and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents.

31

They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

32

Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

1 tim 1:8-11

4 We know that the law is good, provided that one uses it as law,

9

with the understanding that law is meant not for a righteous person but for the lawless and unruly, the godless and sinful, the unholy and profane, those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers,

10

the unchaste, practicing homosexuals, 5 kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is opposed to sound teaching,

11

according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted

Are you defending Homosexuals will over that of Gods? However unruly these people are (as long as it does not turn to violence), they most likely feel they are defending gods will over homosexuality.

Edited September 29, 2003 by foundsheep