Once Saved Always Saved Vs Lose Your Salvation

[Joolye]

I'm interested to hear both sides of the Once saved always saved debate. Do you believe 'once saved always saved' or do you believe that you can lose your salvation? Explain why and use Scripture to back it up. I think I know what you Catholics believe.

Catholics and non-catholics can respond. It would be interesting to hear different points of view also.

I know what I believe, but am not sharing it yet.

[cmotherofpirl]

There are whole threads of this in the archives under search.

[JP2Iloveyou]

A person can lose their salvation through sin. Remember, sin is purposely turning away from God. It is a free choice we make to reject God. Because He is all loving, God respects our decision and does not force Himself on us. He continues to knock on the door of our heart, but whether or not we open the door is up to us. There are countless references to this in scripture.

Mathew 19: 16-17 says, "Now someone approached him and said, "Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?" He answered him, "Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep teh commandments." (emphasis mine)

All of Mathew 18: 6-9 speaks of this. This is the story where Christ tells his disciples to cut off parts of their bodies if they cause them to sin. He says it is better to enter into life maimed than to enter into hell with your entire body intact.

Mathew 25: 31-46 is the best example of Christ granting salvation to those who have shown they desire salvation through their good works. I'm not goign to type it out, buy you can all read it.

When asked what the greatest commandment is in Mark 12: 28, Christ responds in verse 30 by saying, "You shall love the Lord your God with all our heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength." When we sin, we do not love God.

There are so many more examples I could give, I would be here all day. The last one I'm going to give though is my favorite. James 3: 14-26 says, "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, an one of you says to them, 'Go in peace, keep warm and eat well,' but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good it it? So also faith itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

inDouche someone might say, 'You have faith and I have works.' Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.. You believe that God is one. You do well. Even teh demons believe taht and tremble. Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works. Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says,'Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,' and he was called 'the friend of God.' See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route? For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead."

[Dave]

I say there's way too much scriptural evidence NOT to believe we can lose our salvation.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Lets take a look at Scripture:

"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified"

1 Corinthians 9:27

Paul tells the Corinthians that you can be "disqualified" from the reward, salvation.

"So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling."

Phillipians 2:12

Paul tells us to work on our salvation throughout our lives.

"He who endures to the end will be saved"

Matthew 24:13

The Gospel of Mark states that you must endure all the way to the end to be saved.

"If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Matthew 19:17

Note the word keep. You must keep the commandments to enter heaven. To keep the commandments, you must follow a certain lifestyle. You cannot follow the commandments until you are "saved", then disregard them and still reach heaven.

[Anna]

It's Biblical, and Catholic teaching, that one can reject the gift of Salvation that Christ bought for us.

We may accept the gift at first, but later reject it.

But no matter how many times we sin and separate ourselves from God, if we are truly sorry and commit to try harder to avoid this sin the future, we receive Christ's forgiveness in the Sacrament He instituted in the Church: "If you receive men's sins, they are forgiven them; if you hold them bound, they are held bound." The priest helps us in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, to reconcile back with God. He prays prayers of absolution, so that our sins may be absolved, and grace restored to our souls.

It's like taking a shower. Doesn't mean you'll never get dirty again. Just means it feels so good to get clean, you should go more often so you're always fresh and squeaky clean and ready to meet the Lord. Because we know not the hour when He may come... :)

[notbilln]

In english I think we have a comon phrase for this very situation.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

Until you are in the choir of heaven singing with all the faithfull departed, don't assume anything about your eternal fate. On a journey of unknown length to an unknown location, it is impossible to say exactly where you will end up or how close you are to the finish.

[Joolye]

Well good. It seems we agree on this topic.

[MC Just]

How Luther Got Once saved always saved from the scriptures confuses me, because Osas is in direct contradiction to what Jesus taught.

Why did jesus teach that we shouldnt sin?

Why did he tell us to chop off our right arm if it causes us to sin?

Why did he say it's better to enter heaven maimed then to have your whole body thrown into hell?

Obviously you can lose your salvation by sinning.

How people even approved of it really buggs me.

Edited September 30, 2003 by Mc-Just†