Gay Marriage Legalized In Spain

[StMichael]

[url="http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/04/international/europe/04spain.html?oref=login"]NY TIMES Link[/url]

October 4, 2004

Church and State Clash, Noisily, in Spain
By MARLISE SIMONS

EL PUERTO DE SANTA MARÍA, Spain, Oct. 3 - Missionaries used to leave this southern Spanish port for the Americas to preach Christianity, and now, centuries later, the Sunday morning Roman Catholic Mass can still draw a crowd here.


On Sunday, men and women, dodging the Andalusian sun, came in their finery. Some of the fine baroque churches here were filled with exuberant music and white lace as young people gathered for weddings.


From one pulpit, though, a priest urged obedience, telling his flock again and again to submit to church teachings and accept the will of God. "We must resign ourselves and think of the hereafter," he said.


The message delivered here on the Bay of Cádiz and the Sunday scene were classic, but obedience and submission seem to have little appeal for many modern Spaniards.


Summarizing the country's mood, José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, the new Socialist prime minister, said the other day that Spaniards wanted more freedom, less dogma and a greater separation of church and state. "They want more sports, less religion,'' he said.


In recent days, his government has followed up with a series of social reforms, adapting old laws to the liberal mores of today's Spain. The proposals have infuriated the senior clergy, who say they have not been consulted or even informed.


As a result, a noisy confrontation is building between a left-of-center government that says it has a public mandate for change and a church hierarchy that sees a further erosion of the influence and power its has enjoyed here for centuries.


Things came to a boil on Friday, when the cabinet approved a draft law allowing same-sex couples to marry and adopt children. The proposal, still subject to approval in Parliament, was preceded by some unusually harsh criticism.


Permitting same-sex marriage would be like "imposing a virus on society," said Juan Antonio Martínez Campo, a spokesman for the Spanish Bishops' Conference. Speaking on national television, he said the decision would be tantamount to introducing "a counterfeit currency," with grave consequences for society.


The prime minister, also on television, retorted that the new marriage law was an overdue "extension of civil rights." As gay couples and their friends celebrated in the streets of Madrid, other senior church officials and conservative civilians joined in a chorus of opposition.


The church's strong reaction set off a deluge of anticlerical caricatures and articles in the press. One writer suggested that more gay priests should be "outed"; another recalled how in the 1960's during the right-wing Franco dictatorship, religious vigilantes snooped around clubs and fiestas to check if dancing men and women were keeping enough distance. A popular TV puppet show known for its satirical bite showed two political leaders dancing close, mocking the church.


But marriage rights for gay couples is far from the only issue troubling the Catholic Church. Further government plans include liberalizing abortion laws, allowing embryo research for therapeutic purposes, making divorce easier and cracking down on domestic violence.


In another setback for the church, last week the government also agreed that religious instruction in public schools would become optional and grades would not count in a student's final average. A law passed under José María Aznar, Mr. Zapatero's predecessor, that would have made religious instruction obligatory is to be canceled.


The church-state tug of war here is closely followed by the Vatican. Pope John Paul II, who had earlier thanked Mr. Aznar for his "loyal cooperation," reprimanded Mr. Zapatero in June, reminding him of Spain's Christian values. The battle over the church's influence appears far from over - and more than spiritual matters are at stake. In keeping with tradition, the government pays the salaries of most of the clergy - estimated at $150 million for 2004. It also pays the salaries of 30,000 religion teachers appointed by the bishops and of chaplains who work in prisons, in the army and in hospitals. Specialists say the church is subsidized in many other ways as well.


Mr. Zapatero has not discussed the question of church financing. But some government officials have said that, sooner or later, the finances will come under review.


But Conservatives are starting to fight back. Several pro-Church radio stations and a growing number of new conservative talk shows and Web sites are attacking the changes as anti-Christian. Some bishops have called for the faithful to take to the streets and protest when the bills come up for a vote in Parliament.


The shifts in Spain, it would seem, put the country in step with other European countries where secularism is the doctrine of the day. But some Spanish commentators contend that anticlerical feelings here have different roots because they are linked to the Franco era, when the church hierarchy became very close to an oppressive and often cruel government. Although Franco died in 1975, Spain is only now fully examining the civil war and the more than 25 years of Franco rule.


In recent days, as the sniping on both sides heated up, and several Spanish bishops spoke out against the government, Mr. Zapatero tried to lower the volume. He said at a news conference, "I repeat my deep respect for the position of the church, even if it is very critical of the government." He said he would "not reciprocate," but added a reminder: "I will respect democracy, where the laws are made by Parliament."

[Norseman82]

[quote name='StMichael' date='Oct 4 2004, 10:21 AM'] "They want more sports, less religion,'' he said. [/quote]
Sad and distorted. Just like "bread and circuses" in the ancient Roman Empire.

What else can I say?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[popestpiusx]

So much for Catholic Spain.

[StMichael]

Interesting how muslim's influenced the outcome of the election that led to this.

[Enda]

How'd they do that Mike?

[toledo_jesus]

What the Muslims couldn't do in the 700s by conquest they have managed today by immigration. If only Charles Martel were around.

[StMichael]

[quote name='Enda' date='Oct 4 2004, 12:35 PM'] How'd they do that Mike? [/quote]
The current Spanish regime (Socialist) was brought to power by the muslim's who blew up the trains just prior to the election.

Their demands were that Spain pullout of Iraq or they would terrorize the nation further.

In effect the prior administration, who were set to be re-elected, were voted out hastily and the Socialist voted in.

A whole news compilation can be found at the BBC: [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/europe/2004/madrid_train_attacks/default.stm"]BBC Link[/url]

[CreepyCrawler]

[quote name='StMichael' date='Oct 4 2004, 10:21 AM'] cracking down on domestic violence.

[/quote]
how is that against the church?

[musturde]

Muslims are for gay marriages? I thought they would be against it, to the max (for the muslim extremists) killing all gay people (although that's wrong).

[Lil Red]

[Socrates]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Oct 4 2004, 12:38 PM'] What the Muslims couldn't do in the 700s by conquest they have managed today by immigration. If only Charles Martel were around. [/quote]
While the Muslims are a problem, they have nothing to do with supporting gay "marriages" and other such evils. Muslims are firmly against such things. The problem is secular liberalism, which has taken over the entire Western World. When the West believes in nothing but hedonism, how can it stand?

[Lavender]

Oh noooo!

[voiciblanche]

That bites. And Spain's population is supposed to be like 80% Catholic...

[Socrates]

[quote name='voiciblanche' date='Oct 8 2004, 10:38 PM']

That bites. And Spain's population is supposed to be like 80% Catholic... [/quote]
Unfortunately, they're mostly "Catholics-in-name-only" like many "Catholics" in America and in other (formerly) Catholic European countries. Spain currently has the lowest birthrate in Europe.