Abortion, voting, common sense, & the Constitution

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='aragorn' date='Oct 5 2004, 12:40 AM'] 1) I have answered this with multiple responses in an earlier post. (Small portion of Presidential duties; tenuous link to abortion itself, no appreciable effect on abortion; does not amount to regulating abortion.)

2) My arguments are being ignored too. [/quote]
Your arguments have been answered, and you continue to make the same misinformed points.

[RemnantRules]

Blessed Be God!!!

Aragon,

I would like to ask you if you would please remove your signature. I know it's your right to have that on there but i have younger cousins that get on this phorum and i would hate for them to see that then ask questions and then my aunt and uncle not allow them to get back on here again. I thank you for hearing me.


My other statement i would like to say is that you are not just appointing a "coach" your appointing more of a general manager. Putting together other management and other "coaches" and then "players"

B/C they hire other people and the President who is to be elected will be appointing Supreme Court Justices.

The other thing that i don't agree with is that Edwards said to a group in West Virginia and to the papers that we shouldn't have our Religon be a deciding facter. Which I believe he is more or less trying to get at is the abortion issue, and i just find it very false. If your faith in your religon makes you who you are it shouldn't change b/c a celeb says one thing or b/c some politician says for me to change my way of thinking. I find that very dissatisfying and greatly turns me off.
I'm going to vote on what i feel is right and wrong. I'm not doubting Kerry's or Edward's faith but if they don't put that into practice into what they feel then i have a hard time relating with them.

i Apologize if some of this doesn't make sense, it's late, but i hope that you understand where i am coming from. Thank you for your time.

God Bless
Jason Gregory

[flip]

Catholics do not vote for people who slice and dice babies. True... in any cases.

Bush is for slicing and dicing babies in certain cases. Therefore, we cannot vote for Bush. We cannot vote for Kerry.

A death is a death, no matter what the "case". Catholics should never support someone who says "its ok to kill an innocent life" likewise, Catholics should never support someone who says "its ok to kill an innocent life, in certain cases..."

Voting for either Bush or Kerry should be a mortal sin

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='flip' date='Oct 5 2004, 02:36 AM'] Catholics do not vote for people who slice and dice babies. True... in any cases.

Bush is for slicing and dicing babies in certain cases. Therefore, we cannot vote for Bush. We cannot vote for Kerry.

A death is a death, no matter what the "case". Catholics should never support someone who says "its ok to kill an innocent life" likewise, Catholics should never support someone who says "its ok to kill an innocent life, in certain cases..."

Voting for either Bush or Kerry should be a mortal sin [/quote]
"Of two evils, the lesser is always to be chosen."

Flip, I respect you, but I've got to say that voting for neither would be worse than voting for Bush. Now, Bush may not be completely pro-life, but let's face it, no third party candidate will get elected. It's just not going to happen. Therefore, we are effectively cut to two practical options. Bush will do far more for the pro-life cause than Kerry will, and will, in fact, set a far better precedent for the pro-life movement.

Pastoral reasons take into account the practicality as well as the bare moral principles. For pastoral reasons, it is moral to vote for Bush because that will achieve the greatest good.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='flip' date='Oct 5 2004, 03:36 AM'] Catholics do not vote for people who slice and dice babies. True... in any cases.

Bush is for slicing and dicing babies in certain cases. Therefore, we cannot vote for Bush. We cannot vote for Kerry.

A death is a death, no matter what the "case". Catholics should never support someone who says "its ok to kill an innocent life" likewise, Catholics should never support someone who says "its ok to kill an innocent life, in certain cases..."

Voting for either Bush or Kerry should be a mortal sin [/quote]
Bull!

You are twisting logic for your own ends.

Catholics are required to vote for the lesser of two evils.

Bush is the lesser of two evils.

[DancesforLove]

Aragorn, I did read your first post and the other posts. I still disagree, even if the president can't say abortion is illegal, end of story, he still has a great deal of influence, that is the reason he is there.
Also, I can tell you are a hardcore anti-Bush fan and probably are a Kerry fan. So, if you are here to inform us "uneducated Catholics" on how Bush is the devil and we should vote for anything but Bush. Or to lecture us on why abortion should be legal, your in the wrong place.
Because we are not wishy-washy in our beliefs here so your not going to find a group of supporters here.

I agree cmother he is the lesser of two evils so he would be the one to vote for. Because if you sit there and say ok, we can't vote for Kerry or Bush then our opinions aren't heard either way.

Flip, I do think (and have expressed my opinion on this before) that abortion should be regulated. There are medical cases when abortion is the only choice. BUT I think it should be left strictly to medical cases and not left to immature teens who feel they have no choice or overworked businesswomen that are being "inconvenienced" by her pregnancy.

[aragorn]

[quote name='DancesforLove' date='Oct 5 2004, 10:54 AM'] Aragorn, I did read your first post and the other posts. I still disagree, even if the president can't say abortion is illegal, end of story, he still has a great deal of influence, that is the reason he is there.
Also, I can tell you are a hardcore anti-Bush fan and probably are a Kerry fan. So, if you are here to inform us "uneducated Catholics" on how Bush is the devil and we should vote for anything but Bush. Or to lecture us on why abortion should be legal, your in the wrong place.
Because we are not wishy-washy in our beliefs here so your not going to find a group of supporters here. [/quote]
To minimize abortion, you're better off voting for pro-life legislators in your STATE congress. States can abolish all abortions after 3 months unless doctors think an abortion would save the mother's life, and states can abolish all abortions after 6 months period. Your vote does MUCH more damage to the abortion movement in a state congress election.

I didn't come here to stump for Kerry. I didn't come here to argue in favor of abortion. I hate abortion- I think it's terrible.

I'm only here to shed some light on how government is organized. I have found that many people vote with false assumptions. ---If you vote with the idea that the President can sign a bill to ban abortion, you are mistaken. S/He cannot.---

I also wanted to point out that Bush asked for a Vatican endorsement, and the Vatican ignored him. If Bush is the Catholic way to vote, why did Rome snub him? Further, the Vatican has consistently condemned Bush's military policy. (sources in earlier post).

Neither man is a saint, and a vote for either side necessarily involves compromise. You either support a senator who was pro-choice, or you can endorse military policy that the Vatican consistently condemned. When I consider those options, I weigh the President's power to curb abortion against his power to direct military policy. My deliberations lead me to support Kerry.

Edited October 5, 2004 by aragorn

[DancesforLove]

I do see what you are saying. My biggest problem is to vote Democratic, because the candidates the are picking are complete fakes, it's as a simple as that. I know everyone says "hes a polititian, hes going to lie" but I can't in good conscience support someone who has the views Kerry has about war and really anything. I haven't agreed with any democrat, not Kerry, Gore, Clinton, any of them. The all have a different set of beliefs than I do and I would never support their beliefs.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

The only way I would ever vote for a Democrat was if he was more pro-life than the Republican.

[Big Joe]

[quote]I also wanted to point out that Bush asked for a Vatican endorsement, and the Vatican ignored him. If Bush is the Catholic way to vote, why did Rome snub him? [/quote]

Untill Kerry gets a Vatican endorsment, this aurgument is illogical and stupid.

[Big Joe]

BTW, you signature line still rfers to the innapropriate quote from Mr. Cheney, and goes further to quote him as saying something you cannot prove he said. Please grow up.

[DancesforLove]

Even then I would have a VERY hard time doing it. To explain why a little, both my parents are retired marine corp, my grandfather worked for Lockeed martin and at one time I think was in the Air Force. My other grandfather served in Korea. If you are a candidate who refuses to support something my family has all fought for and I would fight for in a heartbeat and your gonna sit there and say that the War on Terrorism which took Suddamn out of power was a worthless war, you will never recieve my vote. I whole heartedly support my troops, there out there fighting and protecting us from another attack like Sep. 11, how dare anyone judge what they are doing!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='aragorn' date='Oct 5 2004, 02:22 PM'] I also wanted to point out that Bush asked for a Vatican endorsement, and the Vatican ignored him. If Bush is the Catholic way to vote, why did Rome snub him? Further, the Vatican has consistently condemned Bush's military policy. (sources in earlier post). [/quote]
Weak argument. The Vatican doesn't endorses politicians, lol...

[Scofizzle]

once again you ahve ignored everything i have said

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='DancesforLove' date='Oct 5 2004, 02:39 PM'] Even then I would have a VERY hard time doing it. To explain why a little, both my parents are retired marine corp, my grandfather worked for Lockeed martin and at one time I think was in the Air Force. My other grandfather served in Korea. If you are a candidate who refuses to support something my family has all fought for and I would fight for in a heartbeat and your gonna sit there and say that the War on Terrorism which took Suddamn out of power was a worthless war, you will never recieve my vote. I whole heartedly support my troops, there out there fighting and protecting us from another attack like Sep. 11, how dare anyone judge what they are doing! [/quote]


My father was in the Coast Guard. My grandfather was on the Italian front in WWII. My ancestors fought in the Civil War, the Revolutionary War (on the English side, actually), and numerous other wars.