Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 [quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Oct 4 2004, 04:54 PM'] I'm not a guy...I'm a jacket. "MISTER PETERSON....PLEASE LET ME OUT OF HERE!" *WHOMPING SOUND, SCREAMS, BLUEGRASS FIDDLE MUSIC* "aggggghhhh!!!" [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 [quote name='Good Friday' date='Oct 4 2004, 05:28 PM'] [quote name='Raphael']You have chosen a less appropriate signature.[/quote] Why is it inappropriate? The Vice President of the United States did say it, didn't he? Most have defended his actions, saying that Leahy had it coming -- if it was appropriate for him to say on the Senate floor, why isn't it appropriate for Phatmass? [color=red][Edited by Raphael: Personal Attack on Johnsonville brat Cheney and the Phatmass Moderators][/color] [/quote] You know perfectly well that kind of language is NOT acceptable, I don't care WHO said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aragorn Posted October 5, 2004 Author Share Posted October 5, 2004 (edited) [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Oct 4 2004, 12:16 PM'] You are going to law school, you are in a prime position to make an actual difference. Why not apply your Catholic faith to your practice of law? You could do tremendous good instead of simply being complacent in a corrupt society. [/quote] This is EXACTLY why I am here; to inform a well-meaning group of folks who will vote on an irrelevant issue, simply because they don't know any better. If you hire a basketball coach, you should hire the coach with superior knowledge of the game, superior motivational skills, and more experience. The coach's opinion on abortion is irrelevant. If you hire a president, you should hire the president with effective foreign policy, equitable social policy, earth-friendly environmental policy, and sound diplomacy. The presidential office has no effect on abortion. That's a fact, which is why substantive arguments were abandoned long ago in this thread. Finally, I want to remind you that the Vatican has harshly condemned the Bush Doctrine, calling it a "defeat for humanity". (Bush Doctrine refers to preventive war as it is outlined in the Bush Administration's National Security Strategy, the official military policy of the USA.) Why didn't the Vatican endorse Bush when Bush requested a papal endorsement? Instead, the Vatican snubbed him; no response. The link is in an earlier post. Kerry's foreign policy is virtually the same as the Vatican's recommendations. I have spelled out this argument, with sources, in an earlier post. Edited October 5, 2004 by aragorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aragorn Posted October 5, 2004 Author Share Posted October 5, 2004 (edited) [quote name='azaelia' date='Oct 4 2004, 10:33 AM'] I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW YOU CAN BE SO CLOSED-MINDED!!! It doesn't matter whether he can stop abortion or not. I weep for the human race. [/quote] If a politician's pro-abortion COMMENTS are relevant because they go against God, then a politician's unapologetic cursing in a personal attack is relevant because it also goes against God. Those at this forum seek to elect wholesome, Christian leaders. I wish to suggest only that perhaps this goal is not accomplished by supporting Bush/Cheney. I could offer far worse examples of moral indiscretions by Bush and/or Cheney, but that's not what this thread is about. Edited October 5, 2004 by aragorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 [quote name='aragorn' date='Oct 4 2004, 08:34 PM'] If a politician's pro-abortion COMMENTS are relevant because they go against God, then a politician's unapologetic cursing in a personal attack is relevant because it also goes against God. [/quote] One is grave matter, one is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 [quote name='aragorn' date='Oct 4 2004, 09:11 PM'] This is EXACTLY why I am here; to inform a well-meaning group of folks who will vote on an irrelevant issue, simply because they don't know any better. [/quote] :rotfl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Oct 4 2004, 09:56 PM'] :rotfl: [/quote] My sentiments exactly. The [i]real[/i] Aragorn would never vote for Kerry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Oct 4 2004, 05:54 AM'] Catholics do NOT vote for "catholics" who believe we should slice and dice babies. End of story. [/quote] Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scofizzle Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 (edited) you have given yourself away aragorn. You have merely fabricated an argument about the powers of the president. To say that the president in now way has or can do anything about abortion is upsurd. [quote] vote for Bush is SOLID support for the Bush Doctrine (unilateral preventive war), which the Vatican called a defeat for humanity[/quote] Yuo have given away that you are part of the anybody but Bush crowd. So please just admit it. Do not give me the argument that it was a unilateral war. Please, It clearly is not. There more than 30 other countries with troops in Iraq. Disgustingly ignorant argument. Also I dont want to hear the "they dont have nearly the amount of troops we do" argument either. Thats very simple. We spearheaded the operation. And oh yah: Largest Standing military in the world = most troops ont he ground. And yes any war is is a defeat for humanity. As far as abortion goes. From the begining justifying it just a little has what has made it so easy to get one done today. You know justifying abortion is how it became legal in the first place. Even if everything you say is true, The president of the United States of Amerca, the most powerful man in the world speaking out against abortion with his actions and words IS very influential to all people. If the only thing you are here to do is support Kerry, you will find youself an outsider here at Phatmass. If you are here to spread the love of Christ through his Church you will are welcomed with open arms. Edited October 5, 2004 by Scofizzle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DancesforLove Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 (edited) Aragorn I'd like to say, you have missed the reasoning for us not voting for Kerry. I chose not to support a candidate who is going to say "I am a Catholic" and then support something that goes completely against his "religion" If he is pro-abortion, then he is not truly Catholic because abortion is not a matter that is taken lightly is the Catholic faith. I think people obviously have the right to make the choice to vote for whomever they chose, I will not judge either way. And your comment "However, our country is set up in a way that does not allow a president to set any rules regarding abortion." Do you think that we should punish people who murder people? Should speed be regulated?? Its my choice to go whatever speed I like on the interstate, why is the government controlling that. What about drugs?? or prostitution? should those things be made legal?? Why can they regulate those things. What about rape victims, should we say "Hey sorry but I can't stop him from harming you, Its not my place to regulate what he does to you" This country was founded on belief of freedom, that you can say what you'd like and not be prosecuted, believe what you want and not be killed for it. It was not however founded on the belief that you may do whatever you please and have complete disregard for others. Which is what people committing abortions are doing, they are preventing a life, they are taking one more child from the unfortunate people who can't have children of there own. The US government is there to keep this country together, to make is triumph not fail. And as hard as it is for some people to accept, that means you must have restrictions and laws. That is what governs this country that is what makes this country great. It is the laws which protect the rights of its citizens but NOT at the expense of others. Also, is abortion isn't a valid voting topic why is it such a big thing all during the election. BTW, you appear to have forgotten, to me, it's not whats important to you that makes me vote a certain way so don't tell me or anyone but yourself that it's not an important issue in voting, thats a personal decision. If it doesn't matter to you, keep it to yourself, we're grown and can decide whats important and worthy of consideration on our own. But don't tell me what to base my decision on. Edited October 5, 2004 by DancesforLove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aragorn Posted October 5, 2004 Author Share Posted October 5, 2004 I have performed my duty-- I have lain out facts, logic, and reason. Does the Catholic church disdain facts, logic, and reason? You are not doing yourself nor the Church any favor by avoiding them. I have done all that I can, and I have done so without resorting to insults or personal attacks. My religion, my conscience, my brain, my philosophy, and (yes) my judgment of character all compel me to vote for Kerry. Jim Wallis is not a Catholic, but his words carry some truth: [quote]But beneath the strong convictions felt by many Christians on abortion is something deeper than politics. The most thoughtful ones speak of "a consistent ethic of life" that derives from the heart of Catholic social teaching. It was Chicago Cardinal Joseph Bernadin who coined the phrase "a seamless garment of life" which clearly linked the "life issues" of abortion, euthanasia, capital punishment, nuclear weapons, poverty, and racism all as critical components. The Catholic bishops themselves teach against single-issue voting that focuses on only one concern, such as abortion, to the neglect of all the rest. The tragedy is, in America today one can’t vote for a consistent ethic of life. Republicans stress some life issues, Democrats others, while both violate the seamless garment of life on several vital matters.[/quote] God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aragorn Posted October 5, 2004 Author Share Posted October 5, 2004 (edited) [quote name='DancesforLove' date='Oct 4 2004, 10:46 PM'] Aragorn I'd like to say, you have missed the reasoning for us not voting for Kerry. Do you think that we should punish people who murder people? Should speed be regulated?? Its my choice to go whatever speed I like on the interstate, why is the government controlling that. Also, is abortion isn't a valid voting topic why is it such a big thing all during the election. If it doesn't matter to you, keep it to yourself, we're grown and can decide whats important and worthy of consideration on our own. But don't tell me what to base my decision on. [/quote] I can tell that you haven't read my previous posts, because I have answered your issues already. I am only asking people to consider objective facts-- the reality of the situation. Reality is neutral to ideology or creed, so there is no harm in considering it. Abortion is a big thing in elections BECAUSE IT STIRS UP PARTISAN LOYALTY-- on both sides of the aisle. It gets VOTES very predictably. However, a President cannot regulate abortion. That is a fact. (See my first post.) If you read my earlier posts, you will learn a great deal. But it is your choice, of course. Edited October 5, 2004 by aragorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 [quote name='aragorn' date='Oct 5 2004, 12:34 AM'] Abortion is a big thing in elections BECAUSE IT STIRS UP PARTISAN LOYALTY-- on both sides of the aisle. It gets VOTES. However, a President cannot regulate abortion. That is a fact. (See my first post.) [/quote] You continue to ignore the Executive Order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aragorn Posted October 5, 2004 Author Share Posted October 5, 2004 (edited) [quote name='Raphael' date='Oct 4 2004, 11:35 PM'] You continue to ignore the Executive Order. [/quote] 1) I have answered this with multiple responses in an earlier post. (Small portion of Presidential duties; tenuous link to abortion itself, no appreciable effect on abortion; does not amount to regulating abortion.) 2) My arguments are being ignored too. Edited October 5, 2004 by aragorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scofizzle Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 (edited) [quote name='aragorn' date='Oct 4 2004, 11:34 PM'] I can tell that you haven't read my previous posts, because I have answered your issues already. I am only asking people to consider objective facts-- the reality of the situation. Reality is neutral to ideology or creed, so there is no harm in considering it. Abortion is a big thing in elections BECAUSE IT STIRS UP PARTISAN LOYALTY-- on both sides of the aisle. It gets VOTES very predictably. However, a President cannot regulate abortion. That is a fact. (See my first post.) If you read my earlier posts, you will learn a great deal. But it is your choice, of course. [/quote] you seem to be presenting yourself, your logic, and your facts as infallible. I am by no means a republican. I tend to vote for republicans because they are often times the better person for the job. So the partisan rgument is out of the window. I on the other hand have disputed every fact you have presented with fact and you have yet to comment. So if you are an official spokesperson for the Church and have some sort of Devine revelation please let us know so that can comply, but otherwise you have prven nothing. oh and Change your signature please. I dont care who said it or why? That is not the image we want portrayed on Phatmass. Edited October 5, 2004 by Scofizzle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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