shelly_freak Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 WOOHOO!!!!! Someone on phatmass who will defend Kerry besides me and Jacob! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 (edited) [quote name='aragorn' date='Oct 4 2004, 12:27 AM'] I am Catholic, and my heart, my conscience, my religion, and my brain all tell me to vote for John Kerry. A vote for Kerry is NOT a sin at all. [/quote] Your heart, conscience, religion, and brain all need a thorough examination. Catholics are opposed to the very possibility of abortion! If John Kerry is elected, there will be no voice in the highest office of the land that is sympathetic to the pro-life movement. In fact, there will be a Catholic who is so out of touch with what his religion teaches that he tries to straddle the fence and say he's personally opposed, but still thinks that we should allow it. Catholics don't straddle the fence on abortion. Catholics change society for the better. Having a bad Catholic in office is worse than no Catholic at all. Edited October 4, 2004 by toledo_jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 How can anyone in good conscience defend anyone who believes we can slice and babies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aragorn Posted October 4, 2004 Author Share Posted October 4, 2004 [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Oct 4 2004, 08:09 AM'] The fact is that we are called to fight evil like abortion in every level of society. It's not about the Constitution. That document doesn't trump God. It's also not about what the President can do. That's a [b]supreme[/b] cop-out. Simply speaking against it is enough! The sooner you realize that the sooner I'll take you seriously. [/quote] The sooner you intelligently consider my well-reasoned and developed arguments, the sooner I will take you seriously. Simply declaring abortion to be evil is not enough. You must consider whether your actions will have ANY effect on abortion at all! A vote for Bush is just lip service against abortion that has ZERO effect on abortion in the real world. However, a vote for Bush is SOLID support for the Bush Doctrine (unilateral preventive war), which the Vatican called a defeat for humanity. Avoiding a rational discussion grounded in reality is a [b]supreme[/b] cop-out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azaelia Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Abortion is an evil that must be stopped [b]at all costs[/b]. I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW YOU CAN BE SO CLOSED-MINDED!!! Children are dying, Kerry supports this. How can you, in good conscience, entrust the leadership of our nation to a man who continues to allow the murder of innocent children??? It doesn't matter whether he can stop abortion or not. Kerry will enable the pro-choice movement...ISN'T THAT ENOUGH??? I weep for the human race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azaelia Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 [quote name='aragorn' date='Oct 4 2004, 11:06 AM'] The sooner you intelligently consider my well-reasoned and developed arguments, the sooner I will take you seriously. Simply declaring abortion to be evil is not enough. You must consider whether your actions will have ANY effect on abortion at all! A vote for Bush is just lip service against abortion that has ZERO effect on abortion in the real world. However, a vote for Bush is SOLID support for the Bush Doctrine (unilateral preventive war), which the Vatican called a defeat for humanity. Avoiding a rational discussion grounded in reality is a [b]supreme[/b] cop-out. [/quote] 1) Your first statement is extremely arrogant. 2) Saddam Hussein was murdering and torturing his people. But of course it's none of our business, right? Maybe we should just allow these atrocities to continue? Maybe we should just sit on our hands and keep our mouths shut? 3) Bush will do more for the crusade against abortion than Kerry will. How can you look at the dealings in this country and think that they always follow the Constitution? People interpret the Constitution differently, and whoever's in power will interpret it in their own way. Personally I would rather have someone pro-life interpreting the Constitution. 4) I know nothing about politics. This is of course my own opinion. But I believe in it strongly, it is grounded in my faith, and nothing you can say will stop me from believing it. We are not living our faith if we do not apply it to every aspect of our lives, including politics. Do some reasearch on what the Church teaches on this subject and then maybe I'll dicuss with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 [quote]The Magisterium said that it's a sin to be an enabler of abortion; it's a sin to vote for politicians who will, in turn, vote for abortion.[/quote] Being an enabler includes anyone who enables. That includes all those who help to make it happen. John Kerry has promised immediately to resume funding of foreign abortions by Executive Order if he is elected. That is enabling. John Kerry will sign into law pro-abortion bills. That is enabling. Don't try to misrepresent the Magisterium here, you don't know the bunch of people you're dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 [quote name='Raphael' date='Oct 4 2004, 01:49 AM'] Change your signature to a more appropriate one. [/quote] You have chosen a less appropriate signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 (edited) [quote name='aragorn' date='Oct 4 2004, 11:06 AM'] The sooner you intelligently consider my well-reasoned and developed arguments, the sooner I will take you seriously. Simply declaring abortion to be evil is not enough. You must consider whether your actions will have ANY effect on abortion at all! A vote for Bush is just lip service against abortion that has ZERO effect on abortion in the real world. However, a vote for Bush is SOLID support for the Bush Doctrine (unilateral preventive war), which the Vatican called a defeat for humanity. Avoiding a rational discussion grounded in reality is a [b]supreme[/b] cop-out. [/quote] You don't get it, do you? Abortion is an evil greater than the war in Iraq ever could hope to be. So what if the Constitution can't be changed about this? Does that make abortion any less wrong? Does that mean we should just go ahead and forget about it, focus on other issues? No. The only way things will change is if enough people make it known they won't tolerate murder. You are going to law school, you are in a prime position to make an actual difference. Why not apply your Catholic faith to your practice of law? You could do tremendous good instead of simply being complacent in a corrupt society. Keep making excuses for evil and see how far it gets you. And please change your sig, we don't use that kind of language here. even ***. Edited October 4, 2004 by toledo_jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 this araagorn person doesnt seem very nice. i dont like ur signature for one. ur not going to change peoples minds either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeagol Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 (edited) [i]i dont like ur signature for one.[/i] [b]i think his point is that Johnsonville brat Cheney's the "not nice" one[/b] [i] ur not going to change peoples minds either[/i] [b]are you implying the people on this forum are close-minded? or that somehow we already know everything, and thus can only make the most righteous decision--that we are all proud? ('pride' in the sense of the mortal-sin) [/b] ... because i like to think that i am neither close-minded nor proud. i'm open to the other view if it makes sense (which i must admit, aragorn's does) because i am humble enough to realize i am not always able to make the best judgments. i urge you to try not to be so proud.. instead try listening to other people's opinions but more importantly, listen to the facts. and please refrain from implying that people on this forum (including myself) are either closeminded or proud.. because while it may be true for some people, it is not true in my case. thank you! Edited October 4, 2004 by smeagol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 cough cough, im just saying that people on this forum have strong opinions and someone shouldnt just swan in and try and change peoples opinions, many of which i value greatly. most of these people on these forums have tought me a great deal and i know they would not make a quick judgement of things without knowing a lot about it, so therefore aragorn shouldnt try and change their opinions because in many cases, they have been made through study of the matter and careful thought. i didnt imply that anyone was close minded, people just have strong, informed opinions, which i value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest T-Bone Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 [quote]Why not apply your Catholic faith to your practice of law? You could do tremendous good instead of simply being complacent in a corrupt society. [/quote] One of the greatest evils of all is when good men sit by and do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 [quote]You're speaking to deaf ears here.[/quote] [quote]Change your signature to a more appropriate one. [/quote] to back up my earlier point. u see, im not the only one........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeagol Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 ok, fair enough... but dont discourage an informative post. btw, it's not necessarily a good thing and it doesn't HAVE to be this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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