The Truth Being Gagged

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' date='Sep 30 2004, 11:40 PM'] That sounds a bit like scrupulosity.  On the other hand, I think the problem today is probably not an over-abundance of people who worry about the "wrath of God constantly pressing on them (the Holy Bible even advises us to work out our salvation "with fear and trembling...").  The greater problem is a secular culture in which we are drilled [b]not[/b] to think about God, despite our behavior. [/quote]
Mateo, good point.

Scrupulosity is a recurring problem among Christians (of many different denominations) especially in this day and age because it's tempting to want to overcompensate for society's lax values.

A scrupulous person lives in constant doubt, and that doubt never escapes them. It's often coupled with OCD and depression. It transcends one's personal beliefs. No matter what you do or want to believe, you are always in doubt, and you never find peace. You're always looking for answers to constant questions. This in itself is usually fine, but with scruples it's an endless thing that interferes with your everyday life, and you never find peace.

ICHTHUS, mark my words, if you are afflicted with scrupulosity, you can and will bash the Catholic Church and Catholics all you want, but it will not bring you any peace.

We become the very portrait of the God that we perceive Him to be.

[HartfordWhalers]

[quote name='Luthien' date='Sep 30 2004, 09:41 PM'] Like I said, you pass judgement too easily. Who are you to dole out who is saved and who isnt? You're just as bad as Catholics saying anyone who isnt Catholic is going to Hell.
[/quote]
The only difference is that the Church teaches only Catholics are saved...

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote name='HartfordWhalers' date='Oct 1 2004, 12:13 AM'] The only difference is that the Church teaches only Catholics are saved... [/quote]
Where is this in the teachings of the Church?

[cmotherofpirl]

Hartford does not rep Church teaching

[frozencell]

[quote]The only difference is that the Church teaches only Catholics are saved...[\quote]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Church teaches that if you know that Catholicism is the truth and still reject it then you are in danger of the fires of hell. But if you, in your heart, don't believe in the Catholic Church, but you live a godly and pious life you are not neccessarily damned to hell for sure.

[jasJis]

The Catholic Church teaches that all are called to accept God's Grace. It is most clearly, fully, and effectively found only in the Catholic Church. All must respond to Grace and must not reject Grace, as that path leads to rejection of God and acceptance of damnation. Nobody is born without the sure opportunity of being offered grace. The Church teaches that people who fail to accept the Grace of the Catholic Church may still be saved provided their failure is not a rejection of Grace and is due to ignorance, poor example, etc. It's like the difference between venial and mortal sins. Just as it is a mortal sin to purposely murder someone, it is a mortal sin to purposely fail to try to save someone facing imminent death.

[DojoGrant]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Sep 30 2004, 09:30 PM'] Romans 1:18-19

[color=blue]18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. [/color]

I have been warned on this site for saying what I believe with every fibre of my being about the "Church" of Rome - that it is apostate and not even a church of Christ. This conclusion I came to after much heartache and tears. I did not want to leave the Church of Rome, but she forced me to do so by her heresy. As a Roman Catholic I never knew the grace of God, but only His Wrath constantly pressing on me, threatening me with eternal damnation if I should screw up by even something so slight as forgetting that it was Friday and having a big mac, unless I did specific works like go to confession. This is in direct opposition to the wonderful consolation of the Scriptures, which declare that the impious man is justified by faith, not works, and freely - without cost or necessity of works.

I was warned for my 'lack of respect for religious' - for simply calling all of you on the dreadful worship of a mere man. I used strong words 'dreadful apostasy' because [b]that is what it is[/b].

Anyway, I should have expected this from you. But search yourselves and see that you do not suppress the Truth about the Roman "Church" in your unregenerate wickedness. That is all I ask. [/quote]
1) If the Church of Rome is apostate, why did you not "want to leave" her? This is a highly confusing statement.

2) "but she forced me to do so by her heresy." So you didn't want to leave, but some unexpected heresy arose? Or just later in life you discovered that it was heresy?

3) You never knew the grace of God as a Catholic? I am Catholic. I most certainly know the grace of God and praise Him for it daily. How is it that I, a faithful Catholic, know of this grace and you do not? Rather, the question should be, is it the Catholic Church that does not preach grace, or was it that you simply didn't encounter it or recognize it?

4) Where does the Church teach the "wrath of God pressing upon [us]"? In fact, where does she say that we will be eternally damned for doing something "as slight as forgetting..."? Last I checked, a mortal sin, one worthy of damnation, must be done intentionally.

5) "Confessing ones sins" is not a work any more than "accepting the grace of God."

6) What are these "works" that have no bearing on justification? Good works, or works of the law? Are they the same thing?

7) You say you were warned for "lack of respect for religious" for merely attacking our worship. At the end of your post, however, you say the following:

7a) "Anyway, I should have expected this from you."

7b) "in your unregenerate wickedness."

Both of these statements are personal attacks on us, the first generalizing all of us as uncaring, the second of which calling us "unregenerate," hence, not saved. This is not what you said you were saying to us, but is exactly the violation of the rules, by attacking the person.

[MrsFrozen]

Icthus, what are you talking about? Why did you leave the Catholic church? Why are you calling it the Roman church? What mere man do we worship? The Pope? Who told you confession was a work? Confession is a sacrament. Those are gifts from God! What are you talking about?

[MrsFrozen]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Oct 1 2004, 01:00 AM'] No - this was just something that I put up as an example of how insecure I felt in my salvation. [/quote]
But that's not the fault of Catholicism! Maybe you needed to learn more about the Church? I think you're misunderstanding some things. Besides, I thought you were Catholic.

[MC Just]

Goodness gracious, the church is attacked inside and out!!

ST. Michael Defend us.......

[HartfordWhalers]

[quote name='T-Bone' date='Oct 1 2004, 01:20 AM']Where is this in the teachings of the Church?[/quote]
Lateran Council IV: "There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which [b][u]no one at all[/u][/b] is saved." No exceptions are given for those who desire to be a part of the Church.

Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam: "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is [b][u]absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature[/u][/b] to be subject to the Roman Pontiff." EVERY creature ABSOLUTELY must be subject to the Pope. Again, there are no exceptions given here in this second INFALLIBLE pronouncement.

Council of Florence: "[The most Holy Roman Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that [u]those not living within the Catholic Church[/u], not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics [u]cannot become participants in eternal life[/u], but will depart 'into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels' (Matt. 25:41), [u][b]unless before the end of life[/b] the same have been added to the flock[/u]; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, [b][u]no one, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church[/u][/b]." This is by far the most convincing and clear definition given by the Church. Here we can see the AUTHENTIC development of doctrine, which was first seen at Lateran IV, then by Pope Boniface VIII and now at Florence, the most clear and definitive pronouncement is defined. No one EVEN IF HE DIES FOR CHRIST can be saved unless he is Catholic. This is so very clear. It says the same at the beginning: no one, unless before the end of life he is joined to the Church, can be saved. It does not matter how much he desires to be in the Church. If he does not come to the Flock before death, he has no hope.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Sep 30 2004, 07:30 PM'] Anyway, I should have expected this from you. But search yourselves and see that you do not suppress the Truth about the Roman "Church" . . . . [/quote]
ICTHUS, you have confused your subjective opinions with Truth.

God bless,
Todd

[Craftygrl06]

ICHUS can i ask what religion you are now? Since you say you left the Catholic Church, and you are obviously still passionate about some religion since you are hear trying to convert all of us. So what did you convert to?

[Hananiah]

Romans 1:18-19

[color=blue]18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. [/color]

Pope Leo XIII echoed St. Paul's sentiment in [i]Immortale Dei[/i]:

"Now, it cannot be difficult to find out which is the true religion, if only it be sought with an earnest and unbiased mind; for proofs are abundant and striking. We have, for example, the fulfilment of prophecies, miracles in great numbers, the rapid spread of the faith in the midst of enemies and in face of overwhelming obstacles, the witness of the martyrs, and the like. From all these it is evident that the only true religion is the one established by Jesus Christ Himself, and which He committed to His Church to protect and to propagate."

The Catholic Church is Christ's one and only Church, and God has made this plain to you. Therefore you are without excuse.

[quote]I have been warned on this site for saying what I believe with every fibre of my being about the "Church" of Rome - that it is apostate and not even a church of Christ.[/quote]
You have been decieved by Satan. Your avatar illustrates what you have done perfectly; you have exchanged Christ for Martin Luther.

[quote]I did not want to leave the Church of Rome, but she forced me to do so by her heresy.[/quote]
I would love it if you would attempt to justify this assertion.

[quote]As a Roman Catholic I never knew the grace of God, but only His Wrath constantly pressing on me, threatening me with eternal damnation if I should screw up by even something so slight as forgetting that it was Friday and having a big mac, unless I did specific works like go to confession.[/quote]
First, you demonstrate here a complete ignorance of Catholic teaching about what qualifies as a mortal sin. If you [b]forgot[/b] that it was Friday, you would not be mortally culpable. However, if you knew it was Friday and ate meat anyway, in spite of the Church's most wise laws, you would.

Second, you are only deluding yourself if you think that you are going to be privy to more of God's grace now that you have adopted a blasphemous doctrine of the atonement and justification which insults both the mercy and justice of God: mercy because it posits that God is incapable of forgiving any sin without punishing someone for it with damnation, and justice because it posits that God can punish the innocent, namely His own Son, for the crimes of the guilty. By following Calvin you have effectively called God a monster, and there will be wrath for you on the day of judgment unless you repent.

[quote]This is in direct opposition to the wonderful consolation of the Scriptures, which declare that the impious man is justified by faith, not works, and freely - without cost or necessity of works.[/quote]
Let's take the Scriptures one at a time, shall we?

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Oct 1 2004, 12:00 AM'] No - this was just something that I put up as an example of how insecure I felt in my salvation. What I said, though, about the wrath of God constantly pressing on me if I screwed up in the least is true. [/quote]
We should not be secure and snug in our salvation. We don't even deserve salvation. We are "worthy" of salvation only because of God's abundant love for us.