St. Michael

[HartfordWhalers]

Why is it that in the Novus Ordo the Feast of St. Michael is now for the Archangels as a whole? Doesn't that diminish the feast, as well as go against tradition, which is what the Feast of St. Michael is, since it dates back many centuries as being his feast alone? Since St. Michael is the defended of the Church, wouldn't it make more sense for him to also have a specific feast. Also, some may say, well there is a feast of "Sts. Peter and Paul" together, so why not the Archangels? There is also (at least in the Traditional Calendar) a feast for St. Paul alone, since the feast of Sts. Peter and Paul focuses mostly on St. Peter and the Papacy.

I am not trying to insult the Novus Ordo, but I just want to know if there was a reason for this change.

[vianney]

couldnt tell you.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

I wasn't aware that is was ever designated for St. Michael only, but aparantly you are correct. No idea why it was changed though.
St. Gabriel's old feast day was March 24
St. Raphael's old fest day was October 24

You can bet I'm feasting today though! (St. Michael the Archangel is my confirmation Saint.)

[HartfordWhalers]

My confirmation Saint was a draw between St. Michael or St. Andrew. I ended up chosing St. Andrew. In any event, I think that this is a big problem with conciliar and post-conciliar changes. Why is something changed? There is no reason. Change for the sake of change is the melody most often sung.

[Brother Adam]

I'm not sure anyone here can give an appropriate answer. If I understand right you do not accept the authority of the pope or the Catholic Church, or I would tell you to write someone who could give you a more appropriate answer. Just because one person doesn't have the answer doesn't mean there is one.

Of all things Catholic, "Ultra-Traditionalists" have been the greatest danger to my faith.

[qfnol31]

Probably to allow more feast days of other Saints to be celebrated. It makes sense and doesn't diminish their honor because they're being celebrated together. Actually, just FYI, the new calendar is more accurate than the old so there's definately a good reason.

[HartfordWhalers]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Sep 29 2004, 08:10 PM'] Actually, just FYI, the new calendar is more accurate than the old so there's definately a good reason. [/quote]
It's "more accurate", eh? In what way? The days of feasts of many if not most Saints were moved. They are no longer on the day the Saint died, since there are no longer multiple feasts on one day, etc. That is not more accurate... also, how could it be more accurate, when it was a complete fabrication and "renovation" whereas the Traditional calendar is built upon the Ancient Calendar, which was the original?

"If I understand right you do not accept the authority of the pope or the Catholic Church, or I would tell you to write someone who could give you a more appropriate answer. Just because one person doesn't have the answer doesn't mean there is one."

I do accept the authority of the Pope and of the Church. I do not believe in modernism. I believe in what the Church authentically teaches, and I believe the Pope can err when not speaking infallibly, which the Church teaches.

"Of all things Catholic, "Ultra-Traditionalists" have been the greatest danger to my faith."

Maybe that is a good thing--if the "Ultra Traditionalists" are right, then your faith is wrong, anyway. Although, I am not sure what either "Ultra Trad" or "your faith" would be, since the terms haven't been defined...

Edited September 30, 2004 by HartfordWhalers

[Brother Adam]

Modernism - as in having the mass in the language of the people?

My faith is the Catholic faith. I believe there are certian people who consider themselves Catholic that are a danger to other Catholics.

[HartfordWhalers]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Sep 29 2004, 09:00 PM'] Modernism - as in having the mass in the language of the people?

My faith is the Catholic faith. I believe there are certian people who consider themselves Catholic that are a danger to other Catholics. [/quote]
I would say that the vernacular was a result of modernism, but a Novus Ordo Mass can be valid...

[PedroX]

Ok, way off track...

First, I'm not at all sure why someone would think the calendar promulgated in the 1970s was more "accurate." More convienent is the more accurate term. The calendar was changed to clean it up a lot. Somethings were lost, and somethings were added. There are definitely advantages and disadvantages to the new calendar. However, to say it is "more accurate" is misleading at best, and ridiculous at worst.

Secondly, Hartford and Bro Adam...take it outside, both of you. Neither of you are really adding anything to the original conversation.

Lastly, The feasts were combined to add new memorials and feasts for saints who had been canonized in recent years. These saints had popular support/veneration but no universal feast day. Also, please keep in mind that just because a particular Priest out there doesn't choose to celebrate a feast/memorial doesn't mean they don't exist. Tommorrow is the feast of St. Jerome. I peeked ahead in the Breviary and I"m very excited.

peace...

[qfnol31]

[quote name='HartfordWhalers' date='Sep 29 2004, 09:13 PM'] I would say that the vernacular was a result of modernism, but a Novus Ordo Mass can be valid... [/quote]
What happened to Trent mentioning the idea?

Back on topic, yes they are more accurate now, being as they're on the actual date of death or as close to it and were off before.

Edited: Look at St. Thérèse, her feast day is closer to her birthday. It was October 3 before. She died on St. Jerome's death, and I don't seem to remember it ever being celebrated on that day. Also St. Alphonsus Ligouri is now on his death day (August 1) versus the day later. The new calendar is definately more accurate. I can find more proof if you want.

Edited September 30, 2004 by qfnol31

[Donna]

[b]Act of Consecration to St. Michael the Archangel[/b]
[i](September 29)[/i]

[color=purple]O St. Michael the Archangel, most Noble Prince of the Angelic Hierarchies, valorous warrior of Almighty God, and zealous lover of His Glory, terror of the rebellious angels, and love and delight of all the just, desiring to be numbered among thy devoted servants, I, today offer and consecrate myself to thee, and place myself, my family and all I possess under thy most powerful protection.

I entreat thee not to look at how little, I, as thy servant have to offer, being only a wretched sinner, but rather gaze, with favorable eye, at the heartfelt affection with which this offering is made. Remember that, if from this day onward, I am under thy patronage, thou must assist me during all my life and procure for me the pardon of my many sins, and the grace to love God, my dear Savior Jesus, and my Sweet Mother Mary with all my heart. Obtain for me the help necessary to arrive at my crown of glory.

Defend me always from my spiritual enemies, particularly in the last moments of my life. Come then, O Glorious Prince. Succor me in my last struggle. With thy powerful weapon cast far from me and into the infernal abyss that prevaricator and proud angel that thou prostrated in the celestial battle.

Saint Michael, defend us in our daily battles so that we may not perish in the Last Judgment. [/color]

[Donna]

[color=purple]Brother Adam! [/color]"Modernism" is a term coined by St. Pope Pius X. He called it "the synthesis of heresies."

He wrote an encyclical titled

[b][i]Pascendi Dominici Gregis[/i]: On The Doctrine of the Modernists[/b]
[url="http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10pasce.htm"]http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10pasce.htm[/url]
_________________________________________________________________

Well...I follow the old calendar...EXCEPT for St. MAX's feast day!

And, um Padre Pio.

And Anna Catarina Emmerich!

And Pio Nono.

Where are Jacinta and Francisco on the new?

There's no saints (I don't think) on the new calandar for my wedding anniversary. But on the old are a [i]pair[/i] of martyrs.

I'm celebrating Philomena's feast (at least w/ a smile) til the day I die, please God!
They took her off the new. The Cure of Ars would never accept thanksgiving from the 1000s he helped - he always said, "St. Philomena did it."

St. Michael is also the "Angel Precursor"...the angel who appeared to the Fatima seers thrice before Our Lady of Fatima did.

PedroX!! can you tell me who is on the new calendar for "9-11"?

That novena to St. Michael and his consecration have been all over the net these past 10 days.

[Donna]

Quinullefenol 31 (can we have a nickname for you?), is it possible that St. Alphonsus spent a day in purgatory (Aug. 1st, died) before heaven (Aug. 2nd, feast)?

[Donna]

Here is paragraph #3 of[i] Pascendi.[/i]
I have broken it up to be easier to read, and have added emphasis:


3. Although they express their astonishment that We should number them amongst the enemies of the Church, no one will be reasonably surprised that We should do so, if, leaving out of account the internal disposition of the soul, of which God alone is the Judge, he considers their tenets, their manner of speech, and their action.

Nor indeed would he be wrong in regarding them as [color=red]the most pernicious of all the adversaries of the Church. For, as We have said, they put into operation their designs for her undoing, not from without but from within[/color]. Hence, the danger is present almost in the very veins and heart of the Church, whose injury is the more certain from the very fact that their knowledge of her is more intimate.

Moreover, they lay the ax not to the branches and shoots, but to the very root, that is, to the faith and its deepest fibers. And [color=red]once having struck at this root of immortality, they proceed to diffuse poison through the whole tree, so that there is no part of Catholic truth which they leave untouched, none that they do not strive to corrupt.[/color] Further, none is more skillful, none more astute than they, in the employment of a thousand noxious devices; for they play the double part of rationalist and Catholic, and this so craftily that [i][color=red]they easily lead the unwary into error;[/color][/i] and as audacity is their chief characteristic, there is no conclusion of any kind from which they shrink or which they do not thrust forward with pertinacity and assurance.

To this must be added the fact, which indeed is [color=red]well calculated to deceive souls[/color], that they lead a life of the greatest activity, of assiduous and ardent application to every branch of learning, and that they possess, as a rule, a reputation for irreproachable morality. Finally, there is the fact which is all hut fatal to the hope of cure that their very doctrines have given such a bent to their minds, that they disdain all authority and brook no restraint; and relying upon a false conscience, they attempt to ascribe to a love of truth that which is in reality the result of pride and obstinacy.

Edited September 30, 2004 by Donna