Scripural Support For Purgatory

[mulls]

[quote name='HartfordWhalers' date='Sep 29 2004, 08:03 PM'] This explanation is especially good, since the fact that a person would have to ask such a question shows that he is not advanced in theological matters, yet your explanation is still very clear. God bless. [/quote]
praise the Lord, He doesn't require theological intelligence from a wretch like me in order to save my soul.

[Donna]

Maybe not.

But our submission is required...saved by grace through faith working in charity. We need deliver to Jesus our reason, will, etc; whther these be big or small.

How do you interpret Apoc. 21:27?

Or II Maccabees?

[jasJis]

[quote name='mulls' date='Sep 29 2004, 11:30 PM'] praise the Lord, He doesn't require theological intelligence from a wretch like me in order to save my soul. [/quote]
This is a key sticking point of Fundamentalists, non-denominationalists, and others who think they have to 'break-away' from 'man-made doctrine' and stuff 'added' by man into religion.

God is not just "simple", He is complex, beyond our complete understanding.

We are not required to understand everything God has done for us, how He has done that, exactly how it works out with the divine interacting with us on earth. It's impossible for our pea-brains to know.

Then again. God's motives are simple enough to understand. What He asks of us is simple enough. God did/does all this because He loves us. We can't really comprehend how much He loves us, but we can recognize love. Can't babies recognize and respond to their mother without fully comprehending the concept of love or understanding everything the mother does for it? It's the same with us and God on a certain level.

As we mature and grow in faith, we mature in our relationship with God. We can understand more about Him, what He does/did for us, etc. We learn and understand more what God asks from us as a response to His love for us. If we aren't deep thinkers, or intellectual brainiacs, we arent' expected to respond to God on a that deep intellectual level. Catholics know this by the atmosphere we are raised in. We know we are relating to God, are being loved and graced by Him, beyond our complete comprehension. Depth of faith is not required for the grace in Sacraments. Depth of faith is not required to 'commit to Jesus'. We grow to that. Babies are baptized because God is letting the parents know how much God is actively loving the babies. Babies are baptized because God is wanting the parents to serve Him in teaching their children about God. Babies are baptized because God wants them to know He is involved and actively participating in their lives, beyond their comprehension.

Purgatory is our cleansing, being washed by the Blood of Jesus, to be made pure to join HIm in Heaven. We know that Jesus made this possible for us. You have to question and pray about what you are asking in how Jesus "fits in all this". Are you asking because you don't know He "fits" in this at all, or is this line of questioning just feeding doubts.

I don't think it's sad at all you have these questions. What's sad about it? Who are we to think that we know everything about God's plans? Who are we to even think we can know it all now? Are we falling victim to snares of the Evil One to think that we HAVE to know how/where/when/what God's doing and reject all we do not fully comprehend. Some things are a Mystery. We can drop back to the simple answer and pray and ask God to grace us in responding to Him in love. We can ask for accepting what we don't fully understand instead of working to reject what we don't understand. We simply work to see if God is/may be working to love us somehow and work with it.

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote name='mulls' date='Sep 29 2004, 08:59 AM'] the fact that we're talking about salvation and i have to ask these questions is pretty sad [/quote]
WE're not talking about salvation. YOU are. Purgatory IS FOR THE SAVED. The fact that salvation already occured by the time you get there is a given.

[Hananiah]

[quote name='mulls' date='Sep 29 2004, 09:58 AM'] where does his sacrifice fit into that? [/quote]
His sacrifice appeased the Father's righteous indignation against sin and moved Him to mercy. He propitiated the Father.

If you think of Christ's atonement in terms of penal substitution then there's no room for purgatory, but the Catholic Church doesn't see things this way.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hananiah' date='Oct 1 2004, 12:20 PM'] If you think of Christ's atonement in terms of penal substitution then there's no room for purgatory, but the Catholic Church doesn't see things this way. [/quote]
I agree.

[Big Joe]

^^^^^ So does the Holy Father, and the Doctors of the Church, and most importantly, God himself.

[DojoGrant]

Mulls,

You asked several questions, which will of course beget more in depth explanations. After the explanations, you praise God for not having to deal with such explanations.

You ask, and then proceed to act like there were no questions. Did you really not want to know anything? You got a complicated answer because we wanted to give you the most complete answer you could get, covering all the many facets that exist. Is it necessary to have Apotheoun's understanding? Did we say it was? Then why does that become your argument against the teaching? One can have a simple understanding and be just fine. You sought depth; we have that, too.