Underage Drinking

[Guest JeffCR07]

[quote]I don't think underage drinking with parental consent is wrong. I don't believe any underage drinking is wrong in itself; however, people these days are dumb and overdrink all the time. [/quote]

Johnny, God Bless!

The question is not whether or not drunkenness is wrong, that is always a given under any circumstance. The issue is whether underage drinking AT ALL is wrong and indeed it is.

This is true because All authority was God's in the beginning, will be God's in the end, and truly is God's now. It is only by His Permissive Will that people in authority are able to exercise it.

Now, we understand that God's authority can be used by a person in a temporal position of authority in three ways. First, God's authority can be used by men in power in order to uphold the Divine Law and promote a life of sanctity and grace. Second, God's authority can be used by men in power to attempt to work against the Divine Law and to harm the life of sanctity and grace. Finally, God's authority can be used by men in power in a manner in which those subject to that authority are neither aided nor harmed in their spiritual life.

Now it is clear that in the first case, we must obey. It is also clear that in the second case those in power are attempting to use God's authority to contradict God's Law and to coerce those subject beneath them to do evil. In this case, because God's authority cannot rightly contradict God's Law, we are obligated NOT to obey.

In the third case, however, their is neither a moral good nor a moral bad, their is only the authority of God being wielded by a temporal body. Thus, the catholic is obligated to follow such authority (laws) out of respect for the Authority of God. It must, therefore, be understood that to [i]break[/i] these laws, which in themselves are not moral codes, is to show [i]disrespect[/i] to God's Authority. This is sin, and thus should be avoided.

In this manner, we see that it is indeed a sin to break any law whatsoever that does not attempt to force one to go against God's Law.

Because the law that dictates the drinking age as being 21 does not force a person to sin, it must be obeyed.

Also, just so you know, I'm 19, so this all applies to me. (I should also point out that it is just as much of a sin to knowingly speed, run a red light, etc).

- Your Brother In Christ, Jeff

[Sinner]

It ain't a good thing.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Unas' date='Sep 28 2004, 02:57 AM'] Alcohol should be banned. [/quote]
gimme a break.

Adhere to the laws of your country, state, etc. Even Jesus said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. I think He was talking about tax money, but we can apply that to behavior...I think.

Edited September 29, 2004 by toledo_jesus

[BullnaChinaShop]

I have a question. If the state you live in doesn't allow anyone under 21 to have alcohol even with their own parents supervision, and as a parent you believe the best way to teach your kids about alcohol is to introduce it in small quantities to teach them respect and responsibility, is it still wrong to introduce your kids alcohol as they grow up. Where do you cross the line between obeying the law and preparing your kids to be responsible adults? I understand that following the law is part of how you would tech your kids to be responsible but what about when the law inhibits teaching other forms of responsibility?

[qfnol31]

If you in good conscience, sincerely feel it is unjust, then you have a duty to go against it.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='BullnaChinaShop' date='Sep 29 2004, 01:31 PM'] I have a question. If the state you live in doesn't allow anyone under 21 to have alcohol even with their own parents supervision, and as a parent you believe the best way to teach your kids about alcohol is to introduce it in small quantities to teach them respect and responsibility, is it still wrong to introduce your kids alcohol as they grow up. Where do you cross the line between obeying the law and preparing your kids to be responsible adults? I understand that following the law is part of how you would tech your kids to be responsible but what about when the law inhibits teaching other forms of responsibility? [/quote]
Certainly no law inforcement agent in his right mind is going to object to teaching teens about alcohol in a responsible way (ie small doses to your own child in the home). I think they would object to you encouraging your teen to get plastered (even in your home) because of the danger.

There are exceptions to the "not giving minors alcohol" law... we even give it to them (albeit in small sips) in church.

[DominaNostra]

I agree that it is a sin to break civil law unless it is unjust (causes one to sin). With that being said, I follow the speed limit and all traffic laws, but pretty much no one I know does this. Do those of you who believe it is a sin to break civil law also follow the speed limit and other traffic laws?

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='DominaNostra' date='Sep 29 2004, 02:31 PM'] Do those of you who believe it is a sin to break civil law also follow the speed limit and other traffic laws? [/quote]
to the best of my ability... my neighbor thinks i'm the goodiest goody two shoes....

[DominaNostra]

homeschoolmom, that is good; I know few people who actually go 25 in a neighborhood even though that is the speed limit (I always have people right behind me).

Unas, "Alcohol should be banned." I do not know why you say this because Our Lord certainly did not teach it. In fact, He loved it so much He changed water into it! I say this to point out one of the most ridiculous beliefs of many Fundamentalists; Our Lord Himself supported the drinking of alcohol (in moderation, of course) and drank alcohol Himself presumably. Also, people will say "it is scandalous to drink alcohol or support it because you might cause a person who is a drunkard to get drunk" but this is ridiculous because we see that Our Lord changed water into wine. I hope you do not believe the Fundamentally wrong idea that alcohol in itself is evil (or, even, that it is not good).

[popestpiusx]

One of the criterion for a law to be binding under pain of sin is that it must lack arbitrariness. Someone mentioned the speed limit. That is a good example as well. If I go 36 in a 35 mph zone do I sin? No, of course not. 36 is no more dangerous than 35. The number is arbitrary. That is not to say that we can drive as fast as we want. 90 in a 35 would probably be sinful. But it would be sinful because it was dangerous. If I drink a beer at 20 am I sinning? How about 20yrs, 11 months, and 29 days? Is there some magical effect to turning 21 that makes me more responsible? No. The law is arbitrary, and worse, fueled by that ever-annoying puritanical hangover this country seems to have. I must say that it matters very little to me in the practical realm as I have been over the legal limit for some years now. But drinking is a good thing and I think much of our problem in this country stems from the puritan influence infecting many of our laws. We are not teaching our kids temperance if we try to act as though it is an evil thing to drink. We should not be prohibiting them from it, but instead, teaching them the right way to do it.

Ban alcohol altogether? Right. Since it worked so well the first time.

[DominaNostra]

Popesaintpiusx, thanks for the post. I could not agree with you more about the arbitrariness of the laws, but where is the source of your claim that arbitrariness plays a role in whether or not a law is binding? I would certainly like to believe this myself because I am 17 years old. I would love to be able to go the speed of traffic and have wine with my family at dinner, but this is not possible because I these are both against the civil law, at least where I live. I think the drinking law is outrageous and that the speed limit should be given a prudential basis rather than the current system, but I cannot break these laws without committing a sin (unless you can provide me a means by which to say that arbitrariness is a valid aspect which can make a law binding). Thanks. God bless.

[White Knight]

One thing I do agree with the Liberials on, is banning Alcohol, it promotes drunkeness (obviously); it kills people, it promotes uneccessary volience, it damages your body.


I do think Underage drinking is immoral, because ya basically disobeying your parents.

[DominaNostra]

White, it is not disobeying your parents if your parents allow it. Further, did you read my previous post referring to the actions of Our Lord Himself? At the Wedding Feast at Cana Our Lord turned water into wine. If alcohol should be banned why did Our Lord not condemn the practice and instead turn the wine into water? Wine is good for you if you have one or two glasses per day. This is now a medical fact. If alcohol is good enough for God Himself, I think it is good enough for us. Also, if we banned alcohol that would mean that it would be impossible to confect the Sacrament of the Eucharist because the wine used for the Consecration must be fruit of the vine and have some substantial alcohol content. Otherwise, the Mass is invalid. If alcohol were evil, why would Our Lord change water into wine and make it a necessary element to the Sacrament of Himself?

[BullnaChinaShop]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Sep 29 2004, 03:40 PM'] One thing I do agree with the Liberials on, is banning Alcohol, it promotes drunkeness (obviously); it kills people, it promotes uneccessary volience, it damages your body.


I do think Underage drinking is immoral, because ya basically disobeying your parents. [/quote]
I would have to disagree. Only an individual can get drunk. Only and individual can kill themselves with alcohol. Only an individual can be violent to others. That is an inresponsible individual. People who promote banning alcohol don't seem to believe that anyone can be responsible and have self control with it. My answer to this is it is a lot harder to be responsible and have self control if your parents don't teach you such things. By banning I believe you would actually increase drunkeness by making it illegal for good parents to teach their kids how to responsibly drink.

[DominaNostra]

White, the equivalent argument is: food causes people to commit gluttony; ergo, let us forbid food so that others do not sin...