Suicide!

[geetarplayer]

CATECHISM:

2283: We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

Saw that last night at our Confirmation meeting. I just thought that was really uplifting.

-Mark

[Dave]

St. John Vianney, the patron saint of parish priests, had the gift of reading souls. A woman whose son committed suicide by jumping off a bridge came to him, very distraught. She was scared he was damned. But the saint, knowing people's hearts like he did, told her that her son repented before hitting the water.

[cmotherofpirl]

THe Church now assumes that anybody committing suicide is not in their right mind. Mortal sin requirese free assent.

[jess]

in a sense people aren't in the right state of mind when they commit suicide because something is seriously wrong even if nothing appears to be...my brother was suicidal, and i found my best friend with a blade to her wrist. When people see no other way out of a situation other than taking their own life then in a sense they are empty inside and can not see any meaning to their life. A person needs something outside of themself to give them meaning, i.e. God gives us a meaning and a purpose because we all know that he'll take care of us and has a plan for our lives. We live for something bigger and better than ourselves and have a future goal to strive for, Heaven. When people can't see it they despair at the meaning of living and the point of suffering--which even suffering has meaning.

Just my thoughts

God Bless

Jess

[Aloysius]

THe Church now assumes that anybody committing suicide is not in their right mind. Mortal sin requirese free assent.

the Church assumes, however, she doesn't know

it is possible for someone to commit a mortal sin by suicide, we just assume they don't have full consent because of mental illness because it is so uncommon for someone without a real mental illness to commit suicide.

[mulls]

THe Church now assumes that anybody committing suicide is not in their right mind. Mortal sin requirese free assent.

hmmm....free pass to heaven? or purgatory at least?

[Dave]

hmmm....free pass to heaven? or purgatory at least?

Free assent means that the person committing suicide knew it was wrong yet freely chose to do it anyway.

[cmotherofpirl]

hmmm....free pass to heaven? or purgatory at least?

We don't know. But suicide is not automatic condemnation to hell, and thats the important part.

[Luke2219]

THe Church now assumes that anybody committing suicide is not in their right mind. Mortal sin requirese free assent.

I think that is taking it a little too far. The Church does not assume, but leaves that possiblity open. The CCC also mentions the opportunity for repentance. That means repentance for a grave sin otherwise it wouldn't be necessary.

I can attest to the fact that suicide can very well be a ticket to hell. I don't want this in ANY WAY however, detract from any hope that anyone may have about their loved one's salvation. As the CCC says, pray for them. That said, I know from my own feelings of despair and self-hatred that a person can knowingly cut themselves off from God. My thinking was, "I've never going to beat this, I'm going to Hell anyway, why not go now." I knew Jesus wanted to forgive me and I wouldn't accept it because I would not forgive myself. I knew it was wrong, I had full knowlege and consent. My entire goal was to go to Hell.

But, "By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance." Even in my situation, I would have had a final opportunity for repentance. So even if I had done it, my loved one's should not despair.

I think this is a beautiful teaching of the Church and I love the way the CCC states it. My mother went through 10 years of severe depression and attempted suicide over 7 times. She was in great pain and is the saintly woman she is today only through the miraculous intervention of God. She had such severe emotional problems that, if she had succeded in her attempts, I belive that she would not have had full consent. How can God turn His back on someone in so much pain? In her case, she was not turning her back on God, she just couldn't see any other way.

The Church in her teaching is pointing out to us that suicide, when done knowingly and with full consent of the will, is a mortal sin and will lead to eternal damnation. But she also reminds us that we do not know what is in anyone's heart and that we are not to judge the state of anyone's salvation. She reminds us of God perfect providence and infinite mercy and therefore we should never despair over our loved one's who may have taken their lives and that we should continue to pray for them.

[Joolye]

When people see no other way out of a situation other than taking their own life then in a sense they are empty inside and can not see any meaning to their life.

What about a Christian who won't commit suicide, but has a death wish? Eg, they want God to take them out as there is no other way out and life is just not worth living.

Anyone ever felt like that?

[Luke2219]

What about a Christian who won't commit suicide, but has a death wish? Eg, they want God to take them out as there is no other way out and life is just not worth living.

Anyone ever felt like that?

Yes, I have. That's called despair if you think that life is not worth living. This is sinful becasue you are not relying on God's providence, love, and mercy, and you are in some way refusing to do God's will. I have also felt like I wanted to die becasue life seemed too hard. I just wanted Jesus to take me home so I could be with Him. But then I remember Jesus in the garden. I asked God to "take this cup from me. But not my will but Thy will be done." I wanted to end the suffering but submitted myself to God's will. I continue to pray for the peace that comes with knowing that God knows even my darkest secrets, still loves me, and knows what is best for me at the best time.

[Birgitta Noel]

Oooooh, yesterday's Magnificat had an excellent thing on despair, hang on...Birgitta runs to find her Magnificat.....Oh, darn, it was on discouragement, well, I'll share anyways....

"Our sins can weigh us down with discouragement. St. Ignatius of Loyola tells us that discouragement is never from God because it cloouds faith and hope. God's love does not deal in punishment as human vengance does. God's love disciplines us in order to free and purify us - sometimes a painful process - so that we may not die but live in Christ."

Yeeee Haaaaw! Life in Christ ROCKS!!!! Ha, Ha, rocks, Peter the rock, the Church is the rock. I crack myself up. LOL, it's too early for this! :blink:

[cmotherofpirl]

Yes, I have. That's called despair if you think that life is not worth living. This is sinful becasue you are not relying on God's providence, love, and mercy, and you are in some way refusing to do God's will. I have also felt like I wanted to die becasue life seemed too hard. I just wanted Jesus to take me home so I could be with Him. But then I remember Jesus in the garden. I asked God to "take this cup from me. But not my will but Thy will be done." I wanted to end the suffering but submitted myself to God's will. I continue to pray for the peace that comes with knowing that God knows even my darkest secrets, still loves me, and knows what is best for me at the best time.

A clincally depressed person is not committing a sin when they despair.

It is an illness, not a sin.

[Luke2219]

A clincally depressed person is not committing a sin when they despair.

It is an illness, not a sin.

I agree mostly. But I've been there, the question of consent and full control is complicated here. It can only be discerened by the individual that experiences it, and usualy only in retrospect. I just want to stay away from saying, "anyone who is clinically depressed cannot sin." Especialy since the diagnosis of clinical depression could be wrong.