Hymn To The Pope

[cmotherofpirl]

Wow now we have to apologize because someone is offended by a hymn? Gee for 2000 years they have been trying to prove the Church wrong, and all they needed to do was look at a hymn? Who'd a thunk it....

Edited September 29, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[MC Just]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Sep 29 2004, 06:56 AM'] Wow now we have to apologize because someone is offended by a hymn? Gee for 2000 years they have been trying to prove the Church wrong, and all they needed to do was look at a hymn? Who'd a thunk it.... [/quote]

[ICTHUS]

[quote name='Dave']1. Quit calling the Catholic Church Romanism! It's VERY disrespectful![/quote] What would you have me call her? Certainly not the catholic Church, for Rome has corrupted the Holy Gospel and is no longer a church of Christ, but a synagogue of Satan. This hymn to the pope is just further evidence to heap on the pile as proof of her damnable apostasy, which will finally be revealed on the Day of Judgement.

Also, Rome's declaring the Biblical gospel and all who believe it to be heretical and anathema, respectively, was 'disrespectful'. You guys did your fair share of mudslinging at those who believe the Gospel at the Council of Trent - so don't dish out what you can't take yourself!

[quote]He bears alone the Shepherd Staff,[/quote] CHRIST bears alone the shepherd staff. HE alone is the "good shepherd", not the Pope.

[quote]"His praises sound"[/quote] This sounds conspicuously like the honour given to God alone in the Holy Bible.

Praise our God, O peoples, let the [b]sound[/b] of his [b]praise[/b] be heard; (Psalm 66:8)

[quote]His rule is over space and time:[/quote]

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Notice something. GOD made the Heavens and the Earth, and rules over them - not the Pope!!!

Deuterotomy 10:14
To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it.

Hmm...no mention of the Pope here, ruling over the Heavens and the Earth (i.e. space and time...Earth is, after all, part of the space/time continuum)

Also, do I need to prove to you that God rules heaven? LoL..

[quote]"His throne the hearts of men"[/quote] Umm..the Popes throne is in the heart of men? I always thought that the Holy Spirit reigned in the hearts of the regenerate. Maybe my bible is mistranslated, though, I dunno.

[quote]"Let all the earth his glory sing"[/quote]

Isaiah 24:16

[b]From the ends of the earth we hear singing: "Glory to the Righteous One."[/b] But I said, "I waste away, I waste away! Woe to me! The treacherous betray! With treachery the treacherous betray!"

Isaiah 44:23
Sing for joy, O heavens, for the LORD has done this; [b]shout aloud, O earth beneath.[/b] Burst into song, you mountains, you forests and all your trees, for the LORD has redeemed Jacob, he displays his glory in Israel.

Revelation 5:13
Then I heard every [b]creature in heaven and on earth [/b]and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and [b]glory[/b] and power, for ever and ever!"

I believe I have amassed sufficent evidence. This hymn bears witness to the Roman Whore's dreadful apostasy. She has turned aside from God and worshipped the creature rather than the Creator, exchanging the truth for a lie. For this reason, the wrath of God is being revealed against them, against all who supress the Truth in their unrighteousness.

[Apotheoun]

It is truly a sad day when Protestants have been reduced to making polemical attacks upon a song.

[ICTHUS]

If this is not the teaching of Rome, why has not one of her bishops issued a statement condemning it? It is, after all, featured on a prominent Romanist website.

Edited September 29, 2004 by ICTHUS

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Sep 29 2004, 09:10 AM'] If this is not the teaching of Rome, why has not one of her bishops issued a statement condemning it? It is, after all, featured on a prominent Romanist website. [/quote]
The hymns used in the Church are just that, hymns. They are not dogmatic formulations infallibly defined by the Magisterium, and to think that they are is simply foolish. Now, personally I find nothing wrong with this hymn, because if the theology of the Papacy is properly understood, it makes complete sense; but I doubt that you properly understand the authority of the Pope as the Vicar of Christ, and so you find the hymn problematic.

God bless,
Todd

[ICTHUS]

There's nothing to understand! I CLEARLY SHOWED above how the hymn tries to usurp God's authority and give it to the Pope - because it uses language similar to how Scripture describes God!

I find it awfully convenient (though, I can't blame you, as I did it myself) that you keep telling me I need to 'understand' - I understand perfectly. You have taken God's authority and tried to give it to a mere man.

Lord have mercy on all of you...

Edited September 29, 2004 by ICTHUS

[MC Just]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Sep 29 2004, 12:17 PM'] There's nothing to understand! I CLEARLY SHOWED above how the hymn tries to usurp God's authority and give it to the Pope - because it uses language similar to how Scripture describes God!

I find it awfully convenient (though, I can't blame you, as I did it myself) that you keep telling me I need to 'understand' - I understand perfectly. You have taken God's authority and tried to give it to a mere man.

Lord have mercy on all of you... [/quote]
You have upsurped God's Authority and gave it to yourself Mr. SuperPope..

[toledo_jesus]

Catholics love the Pope. This is a song about a man that people love. it doesn't equate the Pope with God, Jesus, or anybody but the Pope.
ICTHUS, of course it uses language similar to scripture. The words in the Bible aren't trademarked. It emulates the reverent and joyful language of the Bible.
And yes, the Pope is our Shepherd here on earth, entrusted by Jesus to mind the flock til He returns. Does that mean the Pope is worshipped by Catholics? no, obviously not. It means he has teaching authority and we HONOR him as a man.

Edited September 29, 2004 by toledo_jesus

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Sep 29 2004, 10:17 AM'] There's nothing to understand! I CLEARLY SHOWED above how the hymn tries to usurp God's authority and give it to the Pope - because it uses language similar to how Scripture describes God!

I find it awfully convenient (though, I can't blame you, as I did it myself) that you keep telling me I need to 'understand' - I understand perfectly. You have taken God's authority and tried to give it to a mere man.

Lord have mercy on all of you... [/quote]
No, you clearly showed that your understanding of the doctrine of the Papacy, or more generally, your understanding of the doctrine of secondary and participated causes, is Islamic and not Christian. Simply providing quotations from scripture is not a proof; for you see, you interpret scripture in a defective Protestant manner. The presuppositions underlying your interpretations of scripture are from the 16th century, and so they are a theological novum. As a consequence of this, even though we accept the same sacred texts, we read them in a different way, you read them in the light of a human tradition created by the Reformers, while I read them in the light of the divinely inspired Dominical and Apostolical tradition of the Church given to her by Christ the Lord Himself. In other words, you have chosen to follow Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, et al., while I have chosen, by the grace of God, to follow Christ.

God bless,
Todd

[DominaNostra]

Wow, Todd. Great response! Nice touch with Islam, also.

[ICTHUS]

[quote]Catholics love the Pope.  This is a song about a man that people love.  it doesn't equate the Pope with God, Jesus, or anybody but the Pope.  [/quote] But it does, by using for the Pope similar language to that used for God.

[quote]ICTHUS, of course it uses language similar to scripture.  The words in the Bible aren't trademarked.  It emulates the reverent and joyful language of the Bible. [/quote] It emulates language which is used to worship God and uses it for the Pope! How is this not worship????

[quote] And yes, the Pope is our Shepherd here on earth, entrusted by Jesus to mind the flock til He returns.  Does that mean the Pope is worshipped by Catholics?  no, obviously not.  It means he has teaching authority and we HONOR him as a man.[/quote] Okay, fine. I accept this as legitimate, however, the hymn itself clearly gives the Pope worship.

[ICTHUS]

[quote]No, you clearly showed that your understanding of the doctrine of the Papacy, or more generally, your understanding of the doctrine of secondary and participated causes, is Islamic and not Christian. [/quote] Whatever do you mean?

[quote]Simply providing quotations from scripture is not a proof; for you see, you interpret scripture in a defective Protestant manner. [/quote] So you say - I could just as easily respond "You interpret Scripture in a defective Romanist manner" Saying this will not get you anywhere.

[quote]The presuppositions underlying your interpretations of scripture are from the 16th century, and so they are a theological novum. [/quote] The presupposition underlying what is being discussed in this thread is the premise that God is a jealous God and will not permit any mere man, successor of Peter or no, to be worshipped.

[quote]As a consequence of this, even though we accept the same sacred texts, we read them in a different way, you read them in the light of a human tradition created by the Reformers, while I read them in the light of the divinely inspired Dominical and Apostolical tradition of the Church given to her by Christ the Lord Himself.  [/quote] Divinely inspired tradition? Where are we told in the Scriptures that there is anything other than the Scriptures themselves which are divinely inspired?

[quote]In other words, you have chosen to follow Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, et al., while I have chosen, by the grace of God, to follow Christ.[/quote] In other words, you have chosen to follow the Roman Catholic Church, the traditions of men, and the Pope, the man of sin and the son of perdition, and I have chosen, by the grace of God alone calling me out of the darkness of Romanism, to follow Christ.

[quote name='DominaNostra']Wow, Todd. Great response! Nice touch with Islam, also. [/quote] You Romanists always amaze me. You think that anything with a touch of attitude is a refutation. Your Romish religion disgusts me.

[Luthien]

You're following men as much as you claim us to be doing.

Luther, Calvin, etc.

I do not worship the pope, I worship God.


I am CATHOLIC.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Sep 30 2004, 09:19 PM'] Your Romish religion disgusts me. [/quote]
Then why torture yourself by bothering with us? Or are you offering it up for the souls in purgatory?