Morphs Singnature

[MichaelFilo]

[quote name='Paul' date='Sep 26 2004, 05:12 AM'] To add to Michaels posts. The majority of Catholics here support the Crusades. However many of their acts, were forms of terrorism, and even genocide, we all know that the crusaders slaughtered over 50,000 Jerusalemites, on entering, yet people here have no problem with the crusades, or have crusader related objects. Also I dont have to mention the Inquisition, even though that had some form of justification for the protection of the faithful, many times the faithful turned out to be the victims, one of the most well known would be St. Joan D'arc.

Also. Remember the IRA did publish a letter of apology for the civilians killed in operations. As did the Church for its past crimes, here many are willing to accept the Church's apology, no problem, but IRA, not a chance in hell. Kinda hypocritical do you not think? [/quote]
First of all, the numbers you present are largly skewed. I hardly see what the crusades have to do with this, as they were in the defense of the Christendom. That was outright war, and a just war, all deaths were justifiable by that sheer fact. St. Joan didn't die because of the inquisition, she died because of a bishop's political ends. The Inquisition was COMPLETELY justifiable, all deaths, again, were fair game and were meant for the protection of Christianity. NNo faithful would be killed, because you'd only be brought up if you were charged.

God bless,

Mikey

[MichaelFilo]

[quote name='Ellenita' date='Sep 26 2004, 03:34 AM']
So at least an attempt to answer the question about how far the end justifies the means. Presumably, by this logic it is perfectly OK to murder anyone by any means in order to coerce the nation and therefore you feel no outrage towards Al Qaeda, or the group that's currently beheading civilian hostages, or those who shot children in their back as they tried to escape....



I am very grateful that my (Irish) priest has consistently condemned all forms of terrorism and exhorted us to pray for both the terrorists and the victims.




It is [b]deeply distressing [/b]that there are people at Phatmass who feel it is perfectly justifiable to murder me and my family, or Richard, or Deeds, or RandomProddy, or Adeodatus and others, by any means, simply because we were born in England, Scotland or Wales.......
It begs the question is there any love and forgiveness or sense of universal family within Christanity or the Catholic church.



I think I need time away from Phatmass. [/quote]
In addressing your first point: It is not ok to murder anyone for any reason, thats why we have a commandment for that. However, we aren't looking to meet political freedom, nor do we have any reason that would somewhat justify murder. Groups like Al Qaeda are the prime example of the misuse of terrorism. They use it against a nation that has very little to do wtih the suppression of their country. They have only war in mind, not the end of war which would result in a position favorable to theirs. This is harldy the same thing as the IRA. Beheading civilian hostages, I cannot in any case support the butchering of humanity, but again, if it would meet better political conditions for a country in which there is propertionat reasons to take the lives of people, then again it is not wrong. Children are people, but any delibrate attempt to kill children is wrong. However, there is such a thing as casualities of war.

Your Irish priest, while I'd never talk about the clergy, should take some time to look up the word terrorism, and see how it applies to things like the Inquisition, the colonists actions against Britian, propoganda, etc. The whole world needs prayers, and I continue to pray for the end of this war.



While I can imagine it's deeply distressing, you must realize I am in the same boat here on Phatmass. Any number of people can say they support the war in Iraq here, and they realize that civilian, innocent people that is, casualties are a result of war. I neither bring this point up, nor do I say anything to the effect of, I can't believe you think that. You must reailze, I have my family which is both my grandmothers, my father, my cousins (many of whom I have yet to meet), all but 3 of my aunts and uncles, and of course more distant family. They all are in Iraq in probably just as bad or worse conditions as you are in Great Britian. While I hate to see any of them go, I understand that there is a real world out there. People die in wars, and I plan to go back one day and preach the gospel to those very muslims, understanding that my life may be just as much forfiet as anyone elses. It's really not so bad when you consider that spiritual world to be of much more magnitude than this one.

God bless,

Mikey

[MichaelFilo]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Sep 26 2004, 03:51 AM'] The intentional killing of an innocent human being is always gravely immoral. [/quote]
Apo, since you felt the need to bring this up, the word innocent means:

[quote]1 a : free from guilt or sin especially through lack of knowledge of evil : BLAMELESS <an innocent child> b : harmless in effect or intention <searching for a hidden motive in even the most innocent conversation -- Leonard Wibberley>; also : CANDID <gave me an innocent gaze> c : free from legal guilt or fault; also : LAWFUL <a wholly innocent transaction>[/quote]

Free from guilt or sin especially through lack of knowledge of evil. Please tell me how any supporter of the British in this matter are innocent to the IRA? To the IRA anyone they kill is a supporter of England and is actively committing a crime against them (much like someone who supports aborition is actively commiting a sin). It is hardly innocent people they are killing. While I wish there was some other way to do it, the IRA isn't at all the wrong ones for trying to rattle the ranks of pro-English control. I cannot tell you how terribly unstettling it is to see those who support the British as innocent.

God bless,

Mikey