Morphs Singnature

[gonzaga]

No man should kill an innocent person. I suppose one could argue that it is a war, and therefore the british army are the enemy...

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Sep 23 2004, 03:33 AM'] ill be banned by then.. just as the admin desires, so dont worry. [/quote]
You'd have nothing to worry about if you'd simply abide by the guidelines you agreed to by joining this board.

[cmotherofpirl]

This is moving to the debate board, EVERYBODY play nice.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Morph,
Do you have a connection to Ireland?

BTW: I have no idea what this debate is about.

[Ellenita]

[quote]I suppose one could argue that it is a war, and therefore the british army are the enemy... [/quote]


A fair enough argument, but then why plant bombs in tube/train stations, and pubs and shopping centres..... people who had absolutely no connection to the security forces lost their lives or lost loved ones during the bombing campaigns.

I remember very well the fear that existed in London.....I remember when rubbish bins were removed from all public spaces and lockers for luggage were taken down at train stations and pockets in clothes on sale in shops had be sown up before they went on the racks and when a bag without an owner held up tubes or emptied pubs.........and I remember the indiscrimate prejudice towards Irish people living in London, just because they had an Irish accent, as a result of the fear that was being created.

If you start to justify one act of terrorism where does it end? Are all English people fair game to be blown up by these 'freedom fighters'? What about people like me, born in England with Irish/Scottish ancestory, who has never believed that my country has the right to annex another country into it's 'empire'.....just travelling to work on the tube and train? What about my niece and nephew, not even born during the Troubles....just going to school on public transport......or young people going out for a beer with a group of friends.....

....what about the people in the World Trade Centre....or the clubbers in night club in Indonesia........or children in a school in Breslan....

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Sep 23 2004, 01:30 AM'] I have friends in Belfast that would probably say, "Aye, whay don'tweh jes' start our own country n' call it Guinness?"

[/quote]
:rotfl:

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Ellenita' date='Sep 23 2004, 07:26 PM']

A fair enough argument, but then why plant bombs in tube/train stations, and pubs and shopping centres..... people who had absolutely no connection to the security forces lost their lives or lost loved ones during the bombing campaigns.

I remember very well the fear that existed in London.....I remember when rubbish bins were removed from all public spaces and lockers for luggage were taken down at train stations and pockets in clothes on sale in shops had be sown up before they went on the racks and when a bag without an owner held up tubes or emptied pubs.........and I remember the indiscrimate prejudice towards Irish people living in London, just because they had an Irish accent, as a result of the fear that was being created.

If you start to justify one act of terrorism where does it end? Are all English people fair game to be blown up by these 'freedom fighters'? What about people like me, born in England with Irish/Scottish ancestory, who has never believed that my country has the right to annex another country into it's 'empire'.....just travelling to work on the tube and train? What about my niece and nephew, not even born during the Troubles....just going to school on public transport......or young people going out for a beer with a group of friends.....

....what about the people in the World Trade Centre....or the clubbers in night club in Indonesia........or children in a school in Breslan.... [/quote]

[jasJis]

[quote]I remember very well the fear that existed in London.....I remember when rubbish bins were removed from all public spaces and lockers for luggage were taken down at train stations and pockets in clothes on sale in shops had be sown up before they went on the racks and when a bag without an owner held up tubes or emptied pubs.........and I remember the indiscrimate prejudice towards Irish people living in London, just because they had an Irish accent, as a result of the fear that was being created.[/quote]Most Americans can't imagine what it's like to live in London. There are no wastebaskets in the parks. People leave their trash on the ground and it get's picked up during the night. You can tell American tourists because they carry their trash with them.
In the Tower of London's Armory Museum, there's a little plaque with the names of some innocent tourists that were killed by a bomb left in a satchel at that spot. Consider it the equivalent of four tourist's being killed visiting the Alamo by a bomb left by Palistinians. And it's been going on for years.
The US security at an airport is only a little more than the security one goes through at most tourist places in London. Just a few years ago you didn't carry bags, coats, or stuff in. If you could carry, you and they were searched, and they used explosive sniffing wands like we use metal detectors.

[MorphRC]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Sep 24 2004, 04:16 AM'] Im not sure why people are linking the IRA with America, its totally rediculous. btw, the IRA havent been on ceasefire since 1994, only recently there were meetings to try and get them to have a ceasefire, [/quote]
Yes I read last nite, there was one in 1994, but fell through, the 1997 Cf has lasted since, but groups like the PIRA and INLA[?] have continued ops.

[MorphRC]

[quote name='thedude' date='Sep 24 2004, 08:44 AM'] Morph,
Do you have a connection to Ireland?

BTW: I have no idea what this debate is about. [/quote]
My mums side has celtic ancestry back to the 10th century, pure line. My families suffered under British for the duration of time they have been oppressing the irish.

It wasnt a debate, until I defended my political position, for supporting the IRA.

[MorphRC]

[quote name='Ellenita' date='Sep 24 2004, 10:56 AM']

A fair enough argument, but then why plant bombs in tube/train stations, and pubs and shopping centres..... people who had absolutely no connection to the security forces lost their lives or lost loved ones during the bombing campaigns.

I remember very well the fear that existed in London.....I remember when rubbish bins were removed from all public spaces and lockers for luggage were taken down at train stations and pockets in clothes on sale in shops had be sown up before they went on the racks and when a bag without an owner held up tubes or emptied pubs.........and I remember the indiscrimate prejudice towards Irish people living in London, just because they had an Irish accent, as a result of the fear that was being created.

If you start to justify one act of terrorism where does it end? Are all English people fair game to be blown up by these 'freedom fighters'? What about people like me, born in England with Irish/Scottish ancestory, who has never believed that my country has the right to annex another country into it's 'empire'.....just travelling to work on the tube and train? What about my niece and nephew, not even born during the Troubles....just going to school on public transport......or young people going out for a beer with a group of friends.....

....what about the people in the World Trade Centre....or the clubbers in night club in Indonesia........or children in a school in Breslan.... [/quote]
No bombs were placed in shopping centres by the IRA. Or Train stations. That is pommy propaganda. My mum has been in over 9 bomb scares, while she worked in London, and others parts of England. And she still supports the IRA.

[MartinLuther]

Morph: It is the Real IRA and the Continuity IRA (two small dissident groups with little if any popular support and with far left political links) that are still involved in terrorist activities. The PIRA is another name for the IRA which has been on cease fire since 1997. As far as I know, the INLA mostly just does drug dealing in housing ministry estates but I vaguely recall they may have been responsible for one or two recent explosions - I havent been reading NI websites much in recent months since my NI friends moved to Aus.

The terrorist actions of the IRA from 69 to 97, and also the INLA, the RIRA and CIRA, were horrific and deserve to be condemned. So do many of the actions of the British Army, RUC (police) and the terrorist groups of the protestant community - the UDA, UVF and LVF - especially Bloody Sunday and the internment camps of the 70s where many innocent Catholic men were detained without trial and tortured.

Edited September 24, 2004 by MartinLuther

[Ellenita]

[quote]No bombs were placed in shopping centres by the IRA. Or Train stations[/quote]

What about the bomb which destroyed Mancester city centre - in a shopping area near public transport?
What about the bomb which was defused under Hammersmith Bridge - a residential area with no connections to security forces, and a bridge I travel over twice a day in the bus to work, along with many others?
What about the bomb found in Kilburn - a (mainly Irish) area of London?
The bomb in the City of London financial district killed ordinary workers.
How about the bombs in the Guildford and Birmingham pubs which killed people unconnected to security forces....and for which innocent Irish people were wrongly convicted and imprisoned for many years in the fear and prejudice created in the immediate afterwards....

....and that's without mentioning the many, many bombs in the six counties themselves where people lost their lives.....

.....or the chaos which bomb scares, which had to be taken seriously every time, created......

Of course the behaviour of the security forces and the repressive policies of successive British governments should be condemned, but in the light of the terrorist atrocities, it was (and still is) difficult to challenge these when talking with people who might well be able to effect change through the ballot box.

[cmotherofpirl]

Bombing civilians is never an acceptable option for anyone, no matter what the cause.

[Noel's angel]

Precisely