Homosexuality

[Paladin D]

Homosexuality I heard in itself is not a sin, but the behavior that goes along with it. However I have heared homosexuals are filled with demons, and should turn from their ways. Using the Sodom and Gormoa (blah typo) as an example.

May I ask, why is homosexuality acceptible? I just was never taught that. Any information of some form or kind would be great. :)

[Guest jrob8503]

Because homosexuality is a mental disorder that one can either be born w/ or possibly develop after a psychological trauma like sexual abuse (still up for debate). Acting on this would sort of say you were embracing this disorder instead of trying to overcome it. I've never heard any who willingly wants to define themself as a someone w/ ADD, dyslexia etc. becuase it's not the natural way for one to act. It's just that people have refused to refer to it as a legit disorder, because they think it's restricting someone's sexual freedom. Whatever the hell that means.

Edited September 26, 2003 by jrob8503

[lizofhungry]

Hello. I am a devout Catholic woman who is very involved in the church and i happen to be bisexual, by definition. What i mean when i say this is that although i have urges, just like straight men and women who have sexual urges sometimes for the opposite sex, i have them for both genders. I realized this when i was 14 and after going back and forth, in and out, of the Catholic faith, i came to the realization that this was something that God wanted me to learn from. I made a promise with God when i was 15 that i would never persue anyone of the sex. Even though i have sexual urges for both genders does not mean that i persue them in the slightest. Part of being Christian is fighting lustful desires whether you are straight, gay, lesbian, or in my case, bisexual. A very big part of being Christian is being pure. I consider my sexuality a cross that i must bare everyday. Through this, i have learned so may things like self-control, self-respect, courage, strength, and above all, how to rely on God. Not many people know this about me because so many people in the Catholic church are homophobic so i feel like i can't even open up to even my closest friends. Any questions? Post them and i'll answer them. I hope that by me sharing this very personal part of me, you can learn a little something.

[Dave]

Liz, you are truly an inspiration to all of us! Keep fighting the good fight!

[Trooper4DaHolyG]

homosexuality, or bisexuality is a choice.

Many say "what goes on in my bedroom has not effect on you", no it doesn't. But don't accept it if it is against your values.

If God lists then he intended a woman to be with a man and a man with a woman, keep it that way

(Edited by dUSt)

[Chastisement]

I read a very interesting article a while back saying that homosexuality might be caused by hormonal inbalances present in the womb which affect the developing foetus.

Now, with that said, Homosexuality/Bisexuality it may or may not be a genetic trait, it may or may not be something you learn, it may or may not be a choice, what ever, only God knows.

Now, being homosexuality isn't a sin in of itself. The behaviour is. Just like prematerial and masturbation are sins.

Also, in regards to demons, I believe fully in them and I beleive that homosexuals open themselves up to all kinds of foulness when they turn away from God, I mean, I've seen what they can pick up, it's disgusting! Homosexuality is not a healthy lifestyle, medical and sexual disorders a side, you have a community rampant with drug and substance abuse, those things in themselves can pick up unwanted guests in the form of demons and unclean spirits, for lack of a better term.

But even so, there are straight people who will pick up demons and take them for a ride, you should see what's on my dad's beaver dam mistress.

In regards to it being a choice, if it was a choice, then why do some homosexaul people who are trying to live chaste lives in accordance to God continue to call themselves "homosexual"? Wouldn't that be a contradiction? If they're not pracitiing homosexuals then they're not sinning, and you choose to sin, and if you're choosing not to sin then you've choosen not to be homosexual, yet you continue to claim that as your cross?

Anyway, I don't think it's a choice, I mean, as one gay man once said to me "Why the hell woudl I want to choose this? [his lifestyle]"

[cmotherofpirl]

People do not have a choice in the feelings that go thru their mind.

They do have a choice on whether to act on them or not.

THerefore all sexual acts are a result of a choice.

THe only legitimate sexual activity is within the context of a marriage between a man and a woman.

So those of us who are not married are celibate.

[BLAZEr]

I think that we place much too much emphasis on a person identifying themselves by their sexual inclination. I mean, if you follow the notion that Sexual preference is to be the standard by which people are divided, then why stop at which sex you prefer . . . lets go even further and decide who likes to be intimate in the morning as opposed to the night, who likes to have intercourse with the lights on or off . . . yadda yadda

I think sexuality is such a small part of my identity that it drives me nuts to hear all blabber jabber about gay or straight. I have a sexual preference for the opposite sex (in my case, women) but I also have a preference for Latin Chant, and 60's folk and Classical architecture and Padre Pio and the Holy Eucharist and all sorts of things that I would rather talk about than my sexuality . . .

That said, the Church teaches that homosexuality is disordered. Whether you are born this way or it is developed over time is irrelevant. The Christians who lead research in this field (Dr. Nicolosi, Fr. Harvey, and others) all dispute the idea that homosexual inclinations are genetic. However they do suggest that the environmental dispositions can have their effect very early in a persons development.

Now, the Church teaches us that people who suffer from this inclination all deserve our love and respect. No person is ever fundamentally disordered, only actions are. So we do not teach that those who have a homosexual inclination are somehow 'evil' or posessed. However, the church does not reserve its judgement on the pro-homosexual culture and those groups who agitate for homosexuality. You don't have to wonder if a group like the "Man Boy Love Association" which advocates sex between children and adults is evil. It is, and demons plague it. That is because those who participate in it have chosen to cooperate with their disorder and have been corrupted by it.

Do active homosexuals have demons plaguing them . . . maybe. However I am sure that there are active homosexuals who are trying to fight their inclination with confession and the eucharist.

Here's a little story: I used to live next door to a 24 hour Eucharistic Adoration chapel in New York. I loved it, and would go at the most random times just because it was there. Sometimes at midnight, sometimes at 7 am sometimes in between . .. just whenever I had a chance. And about 90% of the time, there was also a young man (late 20's maybe) who was also there. I'm only 24 and you can imagine how surprising it is for me to see people close to my age at Adoration. So one day I got up when get up to leave to talk to him. We struck up a friendship and would meet at the chapel often then go get a bite to eat and just talk about our lives, our vocations, etc. One day he decided to tell me why he is at the chapel so often. He told me he used to be a practicing homosexual but had encountered Christ through a group called COURAGE. He told me "If I'm not here in front of Jesus, I don't know where I'll be, I might be at a gay bar."

He was seriously, one of the holiest guys I've ever met. He knew that if he stayed close to Jesus, he could resist even the strongest inclination. And he was so filled with hope for the rest of his life. He told me about all the misery and abuse he encountered in his gay lifestyle, but how much love he encountered with Christ.

Let's pray for our brothers and sisters who suffer with this inclination. Let's pray that they always be open to God's grace. And let's pray especially for our brothers and sisters who have stopped struggling with this inclination and given into it completely. Deus Miserere Nobis.

[Paladin D]

Very interesting story BLAZEr. Thank you all for your inputs. :D

[Dave]

I'm straight, yet I have sexual temptations of my own to struggle with. BLAZEr, this guy is a real inspiration to me and to everyone who experiences sexual temptations! Thanks a million!

[Luke2219]

  Homosexuality I heard in itself is not a sin, but the behavior that goes along with it. However I have heared homosexuals are filled with demons, and should turn from their ways. Using the Sodom and Gormoa (blah typo) as an example.

May I ask, why is homosexuality acceptible? I just was never taught that. Any information of some form or kind would be great.

Homosexuality is not acceptible. What you are talking about is that for something to be a sin, it has to be chosen. People with SSA (same sex attraction) did not chose to have these attractions. That itself is not a sin. But, if the attraction manifests itself into actions, the actions are chosen and therefor sinful. This is the same for straight people as well. It's not sinful to be attracted to someone (excluding deliberate lust here) but to act upon that atrraction outside of marriage is sinful. This also relates to masturbation. It's not a sin to get an erection, that is not chosen. You get the idea.

Sufferers of SSA do have demons. But these demons are the same kind that plague the rest of world. And yes, they should turn from their ways, as everyone should. We should die to ourselves so that we may live with Christ.

Because homosexuality is a mental disorder that one can either be born w/ or possibly develop after a psychological trauma like sexual abuse (still up for debate).

Mental disorder maybe, but I think that over generalizes it and makes out to be something that can be cured with pill. But we are NOT born with it. The debate is over.

"Through this, i have learned so may things like self-control, self-respect, courage, strength, and above all, how to rely on God.

lizofhungry, That is an amesome attitude. You are an inspiration to me. Thanks for posting. I hope that I will also be able to learn the same things you have.

homosexuality, or bisexuality is a choice.

Many say "what goes on in my bedroom has not effect on you", no it doesn't. But don't accept it if it is against your values.

If God lists then he intended a woman to be with a man and a man with a woman, keep it that way

This is a very insensitive remark. I know that it wasn't meant that way though.

The choice is in acting upon the desires or embracing the lifestyle. I did not choose these feeling but through the grace of God, I will overcome them.

What goes on in the bedroom does affect us. We are the Body of Christ, and my sin affects you as well.

In regards to it being a choice, if it was a choice, then why do some homosexaul people who are trying to live chaste lives in accordance to God continue to call themselves "homosexual"? Wouldn't that be a contradiction? If they're not pracitiing homosexuals then they're not sinning, and you choose to sin, and if you're choosing not to sin then you've choosen not to be homosexual, yet you continue to claim that as your cross?

Anyway, I don't think it's a choice, I mean, as one gay man once said to me "Why the hell woudl I want to choose this? [his lifestyle]"

Becasue they know what the mean when they say homosexual. But you do have a point. The word homosexual is usualy understood as someone who embraces the lifestyle. That is why most people who are trying to live chaste lives use the term Same Sex Attraction (SSA). And you're right, if you're not practicing then you're not sinning, and you've chosen not to be a homosexual. But that doesn't make the attraction go away. Just as a man once he is married choses to only have sex with his wife, he is still attracted to other women.

Having urges that are disordered and will lead to your own destruction is certainly a cross to bear. With prayer and the sacraments though, it can be a way to learn self-control, self-respect, courage, strength, and above all, how to rely on God, as lizofhungry said.

BLAZEr,

What an amesome story about Adoration you posted. Really an inspiration to me. Thanks.

I agree with you about identifiying ourselves by our sexuality. I do see in the homosuxual sub-culture the tendency for them to do this. But most of the time, I think it's just becasue that's the topic of conversation and it helps to know what point of view you're coming from.

The demons are real. I had a horrible encounter with them recently. I won't go into detail, but there is good that came from it. Now I know that the demons are there. Before they influenced me and I didn't know it. Now that I know they are there, they are a little easier to battle. It's important to remember though, that demons aren't unique to sufferers of SSA. Everyone is part of the spiritual warfare.

Everyone here seems to have a real good grasp of the issue. I hope I haven't muddied the waters.

[JP2Iloveyou]

I guess the thing to remember about homosexuality is that the Church treats it no differently than any other sin. The Church says ALL SEX outside of marriage is wrong. This includes premarital sex, extramarital sex, masturbation, pornography, etc with members of the same or opposite gender. The only person you can have a sexual relationship with is your husband or wife.

As for homosexuals themselves, I am sure that God loves them and has asked them to bear this cross for Him. There was a time when I thought homosexuality was a choice, but I realize now that I was equivocating in that regard. A homosexual inclination is not a choice as far as I can tell. Acting on that inclination is though. What I mean is that I am a heterosexual male and I am attracted to women of my age. That is not a choice. However, it is a choice if I act on that attraction. I hope that makes sense.

I also wanted to comment on the demons. I have never personally experienced demons, but I wholeheartedly know they are real. First of all, the Church teaches they are real, but many people have encountered them. It's not something I ever want to do.

[Aloysius]

i think we should boycott calling people "Homosexuals"

instead, i think we should call them "People who struggle with Same Sex Attraction"

it clears up alot of things. Like, when i try to defend my position to a secular person, they could think they're funny and be like "Do you love gay people?" and i havta say yes, then they snicker. So i would say to that "I love people who struggle with same sex attraction and pray for them that they can resist the temptation" well, then they don't really have cause to snicker, huh?

anyway, just a thought. I don't call anyway gay, i dont call anyone a homosexual or a bisexual, because that is not what defines them. i do not believe it even defines their sexuality. It only defines their temptation. Therefore, these are people who struggle with SSA, not gays or straits. to identify someone as 'gay' in this world people assume it means 'practicing homosexual'

anyway, that's my .02 cents on how we should fight the war with symantics.

[BLAZEr]

i think we should boycott calling people "Homosexuals"

instead, i think we should call them "People who struggle with Same Sex Attraction"

I agree with you, though, I do have some points of consideration.

I think that homosexuality is more appropriately called Same Sex Attraction. This is for the simple reason that there are different levels to this attraction and we would especially like to distinguish between those who are active homosexuals and those who may find they have an attraction to the same sex (either exclusively same sex, or in addition to an opposite sex attraction). So, whenever I do any teaching on this subject I always try to make that careful distinction and encourage people to understand that what we are dealing with is a condition. The term homosexual is a term of identity. This is dangerous, especially for young people whose sexual identiy is not completely formed.

That being said, when speaking about this issue I do like to use the term that the culture uses for two reasons. One, it gives me the opportunity to show the weakness in the cultural identification of homosexuality. and Two, I have encountered people who would prefer me to use that term to refer to them. I will always call you by what you want to be called, however much I disagree with it (I might try avoiding calling you it all, if I can help it, though) because i think its part of respectful dialogue. It would be like me asking someone who calls me "someone who suffers from a relgious delusion" because I am a Catholic. So the happy medium I have found is to refer to it as a Homosexual inclination . . .

Anyway, I just thought it might help to think about these things: