Any Athiests Wanna Come 2 Phatmass?

[Guest JeffCR07]

There is literally no way that I would ever read through this thread.

In my humble opinion, cut and paste isn't the best way to dialogue with an atheist about the existence of God. If I, who love this stuff, wouldn't even [i]read[/i] all of that, we really shouldn't expect the other guy to actually respond to it.

[KnightofChrist]

My goodness I've forgotten that most people dont love to read. I for one do. I read all of what I posted. I found the speeches and writings of Peter Kreeft to be quite illuminating. I am now more informed on logical and reasonable reasons of God existence. I am also more informed of arguments against God, and how to defeat those arguments. And all it took was to read what information I posted, yes it is a bit long, but that is no good or logical reason not to read it. If we do not read we will not learn. If an atheist believes that what I posted is to long, and chooses not to read it, then they choose to not learn something. Which would be his lost, and my gain. I would be defacto more informed than he.

For those who do not will to read here is a link to some great audio by [url="http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio.htm"]Peter Kreeft[/url].

[SinginForHim]

Lunatic, Liar, or Truth.

That's all I have to say.

[Didacus]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1169384' date='Jan 18 2007, 07:04 PM']
My goodness I've forgotten that most people dont love to read.

[snip]
[/quote]

I hear you brother... I hear you.

[desertwoman]

Reading with a book in my hand and a nice cup of cocoa....you're on.

Reading all of that on a computer, out of ya mind.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I do love to read, just not if it's all on the computer. It starts to hurt my eyes after a while. I'm going to print it out and read it on the train this afternoon - I like the part about the 'subtle and complex laboratory'.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1169976' date='Jan 19 2007, 06:06 AM']
I do love to read, just not if it's all on the computer. It starts to hurt my eyes after a while. I'm going to print it out and read it on the train this afternoon - I like the part about the 'subtle and complex laboratory'.
[/quote]

Now theres an idea. Where theres a will theres a way

[Guest JeffCR07]

Anyone who knows me on this website knows that I love reading, and that I especially love reading about proofs of God's existence.

It is important, however, to remember that despite however much someone [i]likes[/i] reading, there are limits created by practical constraints regarding how much one [i]can[/i] read. If a Muslim gave you a 50 page article on why Christianity is wrong, it is at least [i]conceivable[/i] that you might not have the time or the energy to read it. That neither makes him "more informed" nor does it make him "win" the argument. The point of dialogue is not to see who can be the first to overwhelm the other with information, but rather, it is to help them work through what the errors in their logic are.

For all those, catholic or otherwise, who have taken then time to read through all of these posts, that's fantastic, and you have done a great job. For all those, catholic or otherwise, who recognize that they do not have the time to read through all of these posts, you have done nothing wrong, nor are you necessarily ignorant for not having done so.

Charitable dialogue is not simply about what you say, it is also about how you say it. With that in mind, my previous point still stands: it is our duty when talking with atheists to not only present them with the Truth, but to present them with the Truth in a managable way.

Your Brother In Christ,

Jeff

[KnightofChrist]

I would like to say I call no one "stupid", simply uninformed on what they do not read. As for time it took me 30 mins to read all of what I posted. Most Americans spend 170 minutes [u]a day[/u] watching TV, 1,190 mins a week. True not everyone has the time and thats ok, but most do. I also posted links to the audio versions of most of the writings I posted, so people who can not read that much can at least listen.

Posting these writings was not to overwhelm but to share information. Sharing solid and logical information on the existence of God to not only atheist but the Catholics as well.

For those who read the post good, for those who did not have the time and energy thats ok the post will still be here when you do have the time and energy. For those that wont read it because its too long well thats your choice, you do not have to read it, you don't have to learn something and still be a much better Christian than I.

I simply ask those that will, read the post. If your read it, you will probably learn something you did not know previously, and thus be more informed on logical reasons for the existence of God given by Peter Kreeft.

ps

If a Muslim gave me a 50 page book that showed how the Christian faith was in error I would read the book. And give him a point for point where the book was wrong. Or at least try... which would start by reading. Which would at very least make me more informed of Islamic arguments against Christianity.

pps I love to read! That dang LeVar Burton that is to blame here...
[i]
Butterfly in the sky, I can go twice as high
Take a look, it's in a book - Reading Rainbow.

I can go anywhere!
Friends to know and ways to grow - Reading Rainbow.

I can be anything!
Take a look, it's in a book - Reading Rainbow.

Reading Rainbow, Reading Rainbow, Reading Rainbow, Reading Rainbow![/i]

[Semalsia]

[quote name=''JeffCR07'']Charitable dialogue is not simply about what you say, it is also about how you say it. With that in mind, my previous point still stands: it is our duty when talking with atheists to not only present them with the Truth, but to present them with the Truth in a manageable way.[/quote]

You know, I very much doubt that anyone will begin to believe in God after seeing a proof of God's existence. Perhaps that sounds strange to you, but such proofs are only good for confirming already held beliefs and not to make them. The step to believe and to consequently change your life is a huge leap and to make it on the basis of one paragraph of barely comprehensible text seems like madness. You need to have faith to make that step. It's too frightening otherwise. I know that probably doesn't make much sense either and it's kind of like the chicken and the egg thing. But my point is that more is needed than simply proof. Actually I'm not sure anything will be enough. The issue is entirely about a different thing. It's like trust: someone might give you all kinds of evidence and proofs that certain person is trustworthy, but that's not what makes you trust him.

Anyway, just some thoughts I had...

[prose]

[quote name='SinginForHim' post='1169426' date='Jan 18 2007, 05:47 PM']
Lunatic, Liar, or Truth.

That's all I have to say.
[/quote]

Doesn't work if this idea is present:

1. Person does not believe in the infallibility of the Bible - they believe Jesus was misquoted.

[Socrates]

[quote name='prose' post='1192654' date='Feb 12 2007, 06:07 PM']
Doesn't work if this idea is present:

1. Person does not believe in the infallibility of the Bible - they believe Jesus was misquoted.
[/quote]
Actually, that does not remove the problems so easily as you might think.

In that case, given the history of the early Church, many who were eyewitnesses to Christ, including many of His closest followers were willing to lay down their life for a misquote.

And all four of the evangelists would have had to have gotten the reason why Christ was put to death wrong (as well as lied about the Resurrection).

If falsehoods regarding Christ's claims were being spread by the early Christians, you'd think at least a few of Jesus' original followers would object, and try to set the record straight!

The problem with this objection is, in a nutshell, that instead of simply Jesus being a liar or lunatic, we must accept that all of His disciples were liars and/or lunatics!

The problem thus confounds itself.