Shroud Of Turin?

[Shroudie]

Donna, the existence of coin imaging over the eyes will remain disputed, and this is because 1) the grain of the film used to capture the images is so large as to make detail identification difficult 2) because the images are only found in the 1936 Enrie photographs and not in the many 1978 technical photographs. Father Filas did identify the images and others since, such as Alan Whanger, concur. Even so, it remains a controversial visual observation.

The carbon 14 tests were done very well but, as we now know, used invalid samples. The existence of dyestuff (Madder root, aluminum hydroxide and gum arabic), in-thread cotton fiber and evidence of splicing invalidate the sample. The carbon 14 dating must be discarded. I doubt very seriously that the Turin Archdiocese (the custodians) or the Pope (the legal owner of the Shroud) will allow any further testing unless a non-distructive method can be found.

The best evidence that the Shroud of Turin is first century is the collection of signficant bits of evidence from history, archeology and forensic pathology that demonstrate it is the real thing; a genuine burial cloth of a much-wounded, crucified man. Who else can that possibly be? And the image is explained in terms of its chemistry. How else can that be?

I would love nothing better than to be able to establish the age from the coins. I can believe it, which I do, but I cannot prove it or strongly argue it. I regularly participate in a skunkworks of about 75 Shroud researchers. While they all concur that the Shroud is first century, only about half of them accept Father Filas' identification of the coins.

Dan

[Donna]

Hey, Dan. That is interesting, re: the coins.

I know why I believe the carbon dating was a farce.

But how do [i]you[/i] know the carbon samples were invalid?

[luciana]

If anyone's interested, the history of where the shroud has been as it has been safeguarded by people through the years to where it's now is here: [url="http://www.shroud.com/history.htm"]http://www.shroud.com/history.htm[/url]

[FiZzGiG]

Ah, the Shroud of Turin!!
We were learning about that it in Catholicism class. It was soo interesting!

I can't believe that the image is actually a negative! I think my teacher said that taking a picture of the negative image made it sort of show up in color, because it will make a positive image or something.

I found it really interesting though! And he brought up the point that, perhaps, some miraculous event such as the Resurrection could create such large amounts of energy that a negative image (like a photograph) would form. (At the time, we were using Reduction to the Absurd to prove the Resurrection)

I love speculating on stuff like this. It's mysterious and leaves room for faith. Sometimes, you have to rely on faith and not hard evidence.
Makes life interesting.

~Kerry~

[MichaelFilo]

Other people get "holy shivers"?

O.o ummm... hmmm

God bless,

Mikey

[MC Just]

This is taken from the books "Second Exodus"by Marty Barrack
[url="http://www.secondexodus.com/"]Second Exodus[/url]


The Shroud of Turin

The Shroud of Turin, a traditional Jewish burial cloth
woven of linen and cotton, is said to be the actual cloth
in which Jesus was buried. Pope John Paul II visited it
during a public exhibition at the Cathedral of Turin on
May 24, 1998, the day on which his papacy became the
longest of the twentieth century, suggesting his personal
reverence for the Shroud. There he said:
Since it is not a matter of faith, the Church has no
specific competence to pronounce on these questions.
She entrusts to scientists the task of continuing
to investigate, so that satisfactory answers
may be found to the questions connected with
this Sheet, which, according to tradition, wrapped
the Body of our Redeemer after he had been
taken down from the cross. The Church urges
that the Shroud be studied without preestablished
positions that take for granted results
that are not such; she invites them to act with interior
freedom and attentive respect for both scientific
methodology and the sensibilities of believers.
The Holy Father was clear: The Shroud’s physical authenticity
is for science to determine. He continued:
For the believer, what counts above all is that the
Shroud is a mirror of the Gospel. In fact, if we reflect
on the sacred Linen, we cannot escape the
idea that the image it presents has such a profound
relationship with what the Gospels tell of
Jesus’ Passion and death, that every sensitive person
feels inwardly touched and moved at beholding
it. Whoever approaches it is also aware that
the Shroud does not hold people’s hearts to itself,
but turns them to him, at whose service the Father’s
loving providence has put it. Therefore, it
is right to foster an awareness of the precious
value of this image, which everyone sees and no
one at present can explain. For every thoughtful
person it is a reason for deep reflection, which
can even involve one’s life.
The Holy Father was clear again: “It is right to foster
an awareness of the precious value of this image, which
everyone sees and no one at present can explain.” After
he left the Cathedral, the Holy Father spoke to a crowd
waiting outside. He spoke of Christ’s “mysterious face
which is revealed to the eyes of the faith.”
The Shroud bears an image of a man matching in all
respects the Gospel accounts of the scourging, crown of
thorns, the via crucis, and the Crucifixion. Pollens from
plants found only in and near Jerusalem are embedded in
the cloth. The image of the man was in negative, at least
600 years before photography. The image was anatomically
perfect, centuries before any human being had that
much knowledge of anatomy. There was threedimensional
information encoded in the image that only
computer analysis could reveal, 700 years before computers
were able to do that. Some statues in the Middle
East are based on the Shroud face image, the earliest
dated 31 AD. Three dimensional enhancement of the face
reveals the underlying skeletal structures, including the
eye sockets, nasal bones, sinuses, and teeth. Overwhelmingly,
the body of scientific evidence suggests that the
Shroud is authentic.
Carbon-14 dating tests conducted in 1988 had dated
the Shroud from 1260 to 1390. However, heavy black
smoke from the Chambéry fire of 1532, samples taken
from only the most contaminated part of the cloth, and
numerous other deficiencies cast grave doubt on the carbon
tests’ reliability. More recent analysis shows the
Shroud’s origin as before 100 AD. Even Scheherazade
would not have dared tell her Sultan that a fourteenth
century perpetrator with a twentieth century knowledge
of photography, anatomy, and computer technology produced
the Shroud in Palestine and carried it on foot or
animal back thousands of miles until it emerged in 1353
at the home of Geoffrey II de Charny in Lirey, France.
The Shroud’s survival during two centuries of Roman
persecution, and after that a thousand miles of travel and
a thousand years of time until it appeared in Lirey is
miracle enough. On December 4, 1532, in the Sainte
Chapelle in Chambéry, France, the Shroud was damaged
in a fire so hot that the silver casket in which it was
stored began to melt. Although hot molten silver
dropped onto the folded Shroud, the image itself was virtually
untouched. Shortly before midnight on April 11,
1997, fire engulfed Guarini Chapel, where the Shroud
had been kept in a high altar since 1694. Had the Shroud
been in the Chapel it would have been completely destroyed.
However, three years earlier, still in its silverand-
wood casket inside the 39 mm thick bulletproof
glass reliquary, it had been moved inside the adjacent
Turin Cathedral. The fire quickly spread to the Cathedral,
where large pieces of the dome were falling to the
floor. Fireman Mario Trematore, entering the Cathedral
while everything around him was collapsing and burning,
took a big iron hammer and began battering the bullet-
proof glass reliquary. At the moment the glass shattered,
other firemen arrived to assist and smashed the
remaining glass with their gloved hands. Then the team
quickly took the silver casket out the front of the Cathedral,
where it was taken immediately to the apartment of
Cardinal Saldarini, Archbishop of Turin. The Shroud had
no damage at all. Trematore insisted later, “Only a miracle
can explain how I succeeded in breaking the reliquary.”
Anyone can visit the Shroud at the Turin Cathedral.

Edited September 19, 2004 by MC Just

[StColette]

hehehe Just I love that book !!!

[Kaeldra]

Yeah I rather think it is

[MorphRC]

its been proven to be a medievil fake.

[StColette]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Sep 22 2004, 12:01 AM'] its been proven to be a medievil fake. [/quote]
I would like to see that proof hehe I've read a number of books on it one even written by a non-Christian who was on the team who first examined it. He said otherwise.

[MorphRC]

I would like to read these books, because the majority of articles Ive read off and on the main site, are generalized connections.

[StColette]

okie pokie give me a while to find the research paper I did on the Shroud so I can find the names of the books

[Donna]

A Summary of STURP's Conclusions

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[i]Editor's Note: After years of exhaustive study and evaluation of the data, STURP issued its Final Report in 1981. The following official conclusions are reproduced verbatim from that report:[/i]
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No pigments, paints, dyes or stains have been found on the fibrils. X-ray, fluorescence and microchemistry on the fibrils preclude the possibility of paint being used as a method for creating the image. Ultra Violet and infrared evaluation confirm these studies. Computer image enhancement and analysis by a device known as a VP-8 image analyzer show that the image has unique, three-dimensional information encoded in it. Microchemical evaluation has indicated no evidence of any spices, oils, or any biochemicals known to be produced by the body in life or in death. It is clear that there has been a direct contact of the Shroud with a body, which explains certain features such as scourge marks, as well as the blood. However, while this type of contact might explain some of the features of the torso, it is totally incapable of explaining the image of the face with the high resolution that has been amply demonstrated by photography. The basic problem from a scientific point of view is that some explanations which might be tenable from a chemical point of view, are precluded by physics. Contrariwise, certain physical explanations which may be attractive are completely precluded by the chemistry. For an adequate explanation for the image of the Shroud, one must have an explanation which is scientifically sound, from a physical, chemical, biological and medical viewpoint. At the present, this type of solution does not appear to be obtainable by the best efforts of the members of the Shroud Team. Furthermore, experiments in physics and chemistry with old linen have failed to reproduce adequately the phenomenon presented by the Shroud of Turin. The scientific concensus is that the image was produced by something which resulted in oxidation, dehydration and conjugation of the polysaccharide structure of the microfibrils of the linen itself. Such changes can be duplicated in the laboratory by certain chemical and physical processes. A similar type of change in linen can be obtained by sulfuric acid or heat. However, there are no chemical or physical methods known which can account for the totality of the image, nor can any combination of physical, chemical, biological or medical circumstances explain the image adequately.

Thus, the answer to the question of how the image was produced or what produced the image remains, now, as it has in the past, a mystery.

We can conclude for now that the Shroud image is that of a real human form of a scourged, crucified man. It is not the product of an artist. The blood stains are composed of hemoglobin and also give a positive test for serum albumin. The image is an ongoing mystery and until further chemical studies are made, perhaps by this group of scientists, or perhaps by some scientists in the future, the problem remains unsolved.
__________________

[url="http://www.shroud.com/78conclu.htm"]http://www.shroud.com/78conclu.htm[/url]
________________________________________________

STURP and Brother Bruno of the CRC are real heroes.

STURP found out (one of many things) that the resolution of the Image is MUCH higher (more clear) than that of images via a TV screen. In fact, the image is 3D...and it rests [i]atop[/i] the fibers of the weave...

STURP thinks that the Image was made by an intense phenomena/moment of [i]light and heat [/i](Resurrection, anyone?)
____________________________________________________

Morph: [i]A Doctor At Calvary [/i]by Pierre Barbet.

A study on the Shroud of Turin by (former atheist) reknowned surgeon.
_______________________________________________________

Plus, the Holy See has the Veil of Veronica.
______________________________________________________-

Do people realize that Michael Filo's and my avatar is the the Holy Face of Jesus, taken from the Shroud of Turin?

[MorphRC]

ok thx for the resources.

[Donna]

[color=red]Even the Vatican has stated that the material gathered in 1978 constitutes the official scientific data available for Shroud research and it has no plans to allow any further testing, except in the area of conservation of the cloth itself.[/color]


[i]All the young dudes...[/i]


[url="http://www.shroud.com/78exam.htm"]http://www.shroud.com/78exam.htm[/url]

[color=green]Get crackin'.[/color] (insert [i]whip [/i]emoticon)
________________________________________

To this day, scientists around the world use the data gathered by STURP for their Shroud research. Even the Vatican has stated that the material gathered in 1978 constitutes [i]the [/i]official scientific data available for Shroud research and it has no plans to allow any further testing, except in the area of conservation of the cloth itself. Although carbon dating of the Shroud in 1988 yielded a 12th century date, newly discovered information has led many researchers to believe the carbon date is in error. The controversy continues. In any case, no serious study of the Shroud of Turin can ignore the immense volume of scientific facts determined from the 1978 data, and a close look at the 1978 test results must be on the agenda of any intelligent person interested in deciding for himself.

Unfortunately, most of the published scientific work on the Shroud has not been readily available to the general public. Much of STURP's work was technical and resides in refereed scientific journals that are quite obscure to the average person. The general public usually gets their information from the media, who often present biased interpretations and include commentary from so-called "experts" who draw conclusions or present their own theories with little regard for the facts. Over the years, this created a blending of fact and fiction in the eyes of the public that evolved into a Shroud "mythology."

In an effort to foster an intelligent approach to Shroud study, this site will attempt to bring all of STURP's work together, encapsulate it and give you a look at the research and the results. To that end, a Summary of STURP's Conclusions, a Bibliography of STURP's Published Papers and a List of all STURP Team Members are included for your information. I hope to reprint many of these papers on this website at some point in the future.