MC Just Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 (edited) Protestants: Tell me where Peter's Authority went when he died. He was clearly chosen out of all the Apostles and Jesus gave him seperate Authority from the Apostles. So tell me where is Peter's authority if he has no successor? Oh and if you dont want to respond to this post that's ok, because I understand that you position crumbles and falls to ruins when it comes to History. Isaiah 22:22 - in the old Davidic kingdom, the representative (the chief steward or Prime Minister) of the King held the keys. Jesus gives Peter these keys to His earthly kingdom, the Church. This representative has decision-making authority over the people - when he shuts, no one opens. See also Job 12:14. Isa. 22:20 - in the old Davidic kingdom, Eliakim succeeds Shebna as the chief steward of the household of God. The kingdom employs a mechanism of dynastic succession. King David was dead for centuries, but his kingdom is preserved through a succession of representatives. Isa. 22:19 - Shebna is described as having an "office" and a "station." An office has successors. In order for an earthly kingdom to last, a succession of representatives is required. This was the case in the Old Covenant kingdom, and it is the case in the New Covenant kingdom which fulfills the Old Covenant. Jesus our King is in heaven, but He has appointed a chief steward over His household with a plan for a succession of representatives. Isa. 22:21 - Eliakim is called father or papa of God's people. The word Pope used by Catholics to describe the chief steward of the earthly kingdom simply means papa or father in Italian. This is why Catholics call the leader of the Church "Pope." The Pope is the father of God's people, the chief steward of the earthly kingdom and Christ's representative on earth. Isa. 22:22 - we see that the keys of the kingdom pass from Shebna to Eliakim. Thus, the keys are used not only as a symbol of authority, but also to facilitate succession. The keys of Christ's kingdom have passed from Peter to Linus all the way to our current Pope with an unbroken lineage for over 2,000 years. Eph. 3:21 - this divine word tells us that Jesus Christ's Church will exist in all generations. Only the Catholic Church can prove by succession such existence. Our Protestant brothers and sisters become uncomfortable with this passage because it requires them to look for a Church that has existed for over 2,000 years. This means that all the other Christian denominations (some of which have been around even less than 5 years!) cannot be the church that Christ built upon the rock of Peter. Edited September 24, 2003 by Mc-Just† Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted September 24, 2003 Author Share Posted September 24, 2003 Oh yeah and no saying Constantine founded our Church because History proves our Church to be much older and that it existed way before then. 201 The first Church building at Edessa, Syria was erected. 202-211 The Fifth Roman Persecution, under Septimus Severus. This persecution raged primarily in Egypt and other parts of Africa. This persecution claimed the lives of 19,000 souls, including Saints Perpetua and Felicity in Carthage. 203 Martyrdom of Saints Perpetua and Felicity and their companions. After surviving a brutal encounter with a savage cow, in which they were both tossed around and wounded, they were put to death with the swords of gladiators. St. Perpetua guided the fatal blow to her throat from her nervous executioner. Martyrdom of St. Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons. He was buried in a crypt under a Church called, St. John. It was later renamed St. Irenaeus. The Calvinists destroyed his tomb and Shrine in 1562; all traces of his relies seems to have perished. 206-212 Tertullian experiences a semi-Montanist period. 213 Tertullian becomes a Montanist heretic. 217 Martyrdom of Pope St. Zephyrinus. He was buried in a separate sepulchral chamber over the cemetery of Callistus on the Via Appia (Appian Way). During his reign as Pontiff, two decrees have been attributed to him; one on the ordination of the clergy and the other on the Eucharistic Liturgy in the title churches of Rome. St. Calixtus becomes Pope. As a youth he was the slave of a Christian Freedman, Carpophonrs, who set him up in a bank. He was the Principal Deacon and advisor to Pope St. Zephyrinus. Pope Calixtus I decreed a fast from corn, wine, and oil three times a year. These fasts together with the lenten fast made up the fasts for the four seasons which the Ember Days prescribed before Vatican II. POPE ST. CALIXTUS I St. Hippolytus becomes the first anti-Pope and the only one to be Canonized a Saint. He was a man of Greek philosophical culture. He came into conflict with Pope St. Zephyrinus; then Pope St. Callistus I by taking an extremely vigorous view in the question of the reconciliation and re-admission of sinners when the Pontiff was taking an attitude that may have shown an unaccustomed lenience. This schism continued until his death in the year 235. 220 The Council of Carthage I. This African Synod was called together by Agrippinus, who brought together seventy Bishops from Proconsular Africa and Numidia. 222 St. Urban I becomes Pope. He was a Roman by birth and died a Martyr's death. POPE ST. URBAN I 230 St. Pontianus becomes Pope. He was a Roman. he suffered martyrdom with the one time anti-Pope St. Hippolytus in the minds of Sardinia. The two share their Feast day on November 19. POPE ST. PONTIANUS 235-238 The Sixth Roman persecution, under Maximinus Thrax. The bloody persecution was aimed at the Bishops and priests. This persecution took the lives of Pope St. Pontianus and anti-Pope St. Hippolytus. They were exiled to Sardinia by Emperor Maximinus Thrax. Pope St. Pontianus resigned his Holy See in September of 235 so a successor could be chosen. Shortly afterwards, both he and St. Hippolytus were Martyred for the Faith. Martyrdom of St. Cecilia. 235 Maximinus Thrax becomes Emperor of Rome. He was the son of a Goth and an Alanic mother. When the Emperor Septimus Severus was returning through Thrace in the year 202, Maximinus, a shepherd of enormous stature and strength, distinguished himself in a contest with soldiers by such Herculean strength and bravery that the Emperor enrolled him in the Roman Body-Guard. Refusing to serve under the worthless Emperors, Macrinus and Heliogabalus, Maximinus Thrax withdrew from the army, but under the righteous Alexander Severus he was entrusted with the command of the newly raised Pannonian troops. St. Anterus becomes Pope. He was of Greek extraction. He ruled the Church a mere forty days; he was probably martyred. He ordained a Bishop for Fundi in Campania. Historians owe a great deal of gratitude to this Pontiff, he it was who ordered that the acts of the martyrs be taken from the notaries and kept in the Church. He was the first Pope to be buried in the Papal crypt in the cemetery of St. Callistus. A stone with the inscription, "Anterus Epi[scopus]" written in Greek letters has been found in this cemetery. POPE ST. ANTERUS 236 St. Fabian becomes Pope. He was a Roman. Most of his reign enjoyed peace. He was responsible for numerous building works in cemeteries. POPE ST. FABIAN 238 Emperor Maximinus Thrax arrived in upper Italy. He could not cross the Isonzo River because of the floods and his attacks on the stronghold of Aquileia were repulsed. Under the foolish impression that his officers were the cause of his misfortunes, he had several of them executed, thereby arousing discontent among the soldiers, especially in the Second Parthian Legion whose wives and children were in the power of the Roman Senate at Albano. A mutiny suddenly occurred, Emperor Maximinus Thrax and his son were murdered. Gordian I and Gordian II become co-Emperors of Rome. The were Afiican Rulers that were raised to the rank of Caesar. They died later this year and was succeeded by Pupienus. He also died this same year. After his death, Balbinus became Emperor. The Romans were dissatisfied with this arrangement, for they expected great advantages fiom the Rule of African Emperors, and the twelve year old grandson of Gordian I, Gordian III became the Roman Emperor. 242 The Manichaen Heresy was introduced by Mani of Persia. It purported to be the true synthesis of all the religious systems then known, and actually consisted of Zoroastrian Dualism, Babylonian folklore, Buddhist ethics, and some small and superficial addition of Christian elements. The key to Mani's system is his cosmogony. Once this is known, there is little else to learn. In this sense Mani was a true Gnostic, as he offered salvation by knowledge. Pockets of this corrupt heresy either held out or reappeared in the Twelfth century under the name of the Albigensians, where they polluted France. 245 Pope Fabian sent newly consecrated Bishop of Toulouse, St. Saturninus, from Rome to Gaul to preach the word of God. St. Saturninus gained many converts through his preaching and God accomplished many miracles through him. 248 St. Cyprian of Carthage is consecrated Bishop of the great African City. Origen, a workhorse with the pen, writes his "Apology Against Celsus." 249-251 Seventh Roman Persecution, under Decius. This was a systematic campaign to destroy the Catholic Church. It was more widespread and better organized than the previous persecutions. This persecution was one of the most severe and deadly in its effects. At this time the Catholic Church had converted about one third of the population. 250 As a result of the persecution, the Ten Martyrs of Crete met glorious deaths for the Catholic Faith. Martyrdom of St. Chaeremon and other Martyrs. 251 St. Cornelius becomes Pope. His election was deliberately postponed for about sixty days because of the persecution and was strongly contested by the intellectually gifted Novatian. Novatian becomes the Church's second anti-Pope. POPE ST. CORNELIUS Martyrdom of St. Moses. He was a priest in Rome and a leader of a group of clergy who were the first confessors in the Decian persecution. 253 Aemilians becomes Roman Emperor. After his death, Valerian and Gallienus became co-Emperors of Rome. Valerian was a member of a distinguished family. He had held several offices before the army proclaimed him Emperor at Rhaetia. He was weak and irresolute, his abilities were unequal to the difficulties of the times; his son and co-Regent, Gallienus, was also lacking in force. Christian tradition regards him as the originator of the persecution under Decius. Though kindly disposed towards the Christians as Emperor, he was driven to severe measures as the hostile party, whose leader, the General Macrianus, aimed only to gain advantages for himself through the difficulties internal disturbances would cause the Emperor. After the Emperor Valarian's death, Gallienus, who became sole ruler, annulled at once his father's laws hostile to Christendom. St. Lucius I becomes Pope. He was a Roman by birth. Almost immediately after being elected Pontiff, he was banished from Rome by the persecuting Emperor, Gallus. His place of exile is unknown. He soon made his way back with numerous other Christians who were exiled with him shortly after Valerian became Emperor. Upon his return he received an enthusiastic letter from St. Cyprian of Carthage, congratulating him on his willingness to suffer for the Faith and suggested that perhaps the Lord had recalled him so that he might undergo actual Martyrdom in the midst of His flock. Pope St. Lucius I never made any concessions to the intellectual anti-Pope, Novatian. Pope St. Lucius I received a letter from Bishop Dionysius of Alexandria, on the validity of Baptism by heretics. This issue had been much debated during the reign of Pope St. Lucius I's successor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicAndFanatical Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 whoa, nicely done Just. Well written with tons of facts. Love the increments in years too, helps understand what exactly is going on, unfortunatly its probably too complicated for a few of our prot brother and sister to grasp..oh did I say that out loud..my bad. but you cant say you didnt specify historical proof of the truth. God Bless bro, CatholicAndFanatical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 CatholicAndFanatical, Please be nicer to Protestants while visiting phatmass. Thanks. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 Come on!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 Seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted September 26, 2003 Author Share Posted September 26, 2003 lIKE REALLY SERIOUSLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 I think you did a great job, Mc!!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted September 27, 2003 Author Share Posted September 27, 2003 (edited) If the Church that Christ made had no Successors, than that church no longer exists. But the scriptures tell us that Christ's church will exist until the end. Successors are needed, and it's normal, all forms of Governments have them, even the Jews had them. Jesus setup a Christian governing system led by the Holy Spirit, this is clear because Peter was given the Authority to do so. Edited September 27, 2003 by Mc-Just† Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 If the Church that Christ made had no Successors, than that church no longer exists. But the scriptures tell us that Christ's church will exist until the end. Successors are needed, and it's normal, all forms of Governments have them, even the Jews had them. Amen! I still can't understand why some think apostles became obsolete after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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