DominaNostra Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 From what I have been told, Catholic Mass is supposed to be one of the most beautiful, mysterious things in the world, but I have never experienced this. The Masses I go to are pretty normal, they are not really beautiful, i mean there is some music but its not beautiful and it is not mysterious either. How can it be mysterious? I mean, the priest is talking to us most of the time, what is mysterious about that? It's kind of confusing to me to hear these things like from people who arent Catholic who have been told that Mass is beautiful and mysterious. What about Mass is either of these things? Are your Masses different than mine? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 The beauty and mystery in Mass is mostly in the Blessed Sacrament, which is truly the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. One must first know and believe that and then the beauty of the Mass will become very apparent over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinner Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 No such thing as a bad licit Mass. Look around, you will find a Liturgy that is said in a different and more "beautiful" fasion. The eye of the beholder ya know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Knight Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 How long is Mass? like 4 hours? all day or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 [quote name='White Knight' date='Sep 14 2004, 06:34 PM'] How long is Mass? like 4 hours? all day or what? [/quote] It depends on how long the homily is usually, and the speed of how they do everything. Daily Mass (as in during the week) is shorter than Sunday or Saturday Vigil Mass. Sunday Mass is usually anywhere from 45-60 minutes. Though some priests do it so fast, they get it done within 30 minutes. My parish priest used to pastor a majority "black" Catholic Church, so they did a lot of singing, which made the Mass last about 3 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 [quote name='Raphael' date='Sep 14 2004, 12:19 PM'] The beauty and mystery in Mass is mostly in the Blessed Sacrament, which is truly the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. One must first know and believe that and then the beauty of the Mass will become very apparent over time. [/quote] Exactly. When I went to Mass, and did not know about the mystery of the Blessed Sacrament, it just seemed like any other ordinary service. But once I discovered it, my perception on the Mass drastically changed. So every week, I look forward to going to Mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I would argue that the Ordo Missae (current Mass) could use just a little bit of reform and add to the mystery. However, the problem with the Tridentine (old Mass) is that it often focused too much on the mystery. So yeah, probably too much of the mystery has been lost. Also, there are very subjective cases. I attend a gorgeous daily Mass at Cistercian (order) and they are great! But every now and then I run across a Mass that is just celebrated without any idea of myster, and that's sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeteenchick527 Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 [quote name='White Knight' date='Sep 14 2004, 03:34 PM'] How long is Mass? like 4 hours? all day or what? [/quote] i think on average the Saturday Vigil and Sunday Masses are about on hour long, and the weekday masses (monday-saturday morning) are about 30 min. or so long God Bless ~LTC~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daugher-of-Mary Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I've attended some Masses said with a great deal of reverence and beauty, and others that were not so beautiful. It's like Micah said though, the Mystery and beauty IS that we are in the very Presence of the Christ, and with Him, the whole of Heaven. Think about it! God is among us and desire not to dwell in the ciborium, but to take up His residence within our souls!! That is incredibly beautiful, awing, stunning...indescribable. If you really realize what it is that is happening, it doesn't matter terribly if the church is an eyesore, or if the person next you can't carry a tune. Of course, liturgical abuses are another matter and should be dealt with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbo42 Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 The beauty of the Mass is not found in the preaching, music, architecture, etc. It is found in the internal. When you approach the altar as a son or daughter of God, we begin to realize how much we are loved. I'm not saying that the above things are unimportant but the basis of the liturgy should be the Eucharistic sacrifice. God gives us the chance to consume the Body and Blood of His Son. Personally, a gift of that intimacy is one of the most beautiful things in the world. The mystery comes into play when we receive Jesus in the sacrament. The mystery is present when the bread and wine is consecrated and turned into the Body and Blood of Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amarkich Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 [quote]However, the problem with the Tridentine (old Mass) is that it often focused too much on the mystery.[/quote] On what basis can you make these claims? The Traditional Latin Mass is the Mass which has remained substantially the same since the time the persecutions of Christians ended, allowing for the Mass to become more ornate (during persecutions there were no processions, no singing, etc). The Mass was still in Latin, ad orientem when it was said during persecutions, so that is certainly more mysterious and more beautiful than the Novus Ordo, but once the music of the Church and other solemn ceremonies were able to develop, the Church made use of such things. What basis do you have in saying that the Traditional Mass has too much mystery? I suppose the mystery that converted pagans, heathens, and even heretics would have been better had the mystery been reduced; I don't think anyone would claim that the missionaries would've been just as successful with a Novus Ordo with "appopriate" mystery. In any event, what basis do you have for making such a claim. The Tradition of the Church remains firm; solemnity, mystery, and beauty are characteristics of all Rites of the Church even from Her beginning, even during persecutions. None of these three things is seen today usually during Mass, as the original person stated. In reply to the last post, while internal reverence is obviously important, external postures and actions are designed to reflect these internal truths, so when the external postures are lacking reverence or mystery, the same will be reflected by the faithful internally. This is a natural progression and is the very essence of the external aspects of the liturgy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 It was the quote from the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (old Holy Office) that I got that idea from. Mystery is good, but if you become too caught up in it, then you lose the whole point of the Mass, and it began to become too overemphasized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amarkich Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Well, who published that document and what exactly did it say? Even if it came from that source, especially if there is no support or evidence to substantiate it, then it is not simply accepted as fact. Obviously, in the era of no mystery, the previous practice which maintained the correct amount of mystery will either be criticized or called into question. The fact that this was not even a direct quote is also quite disheartening for me. If you got an idea from a letter from the Holy Office, that does not constitute as a legitimate claim unless it can be substantiated (even if it is more than just an "idea" and was explicitly stated in the letter). God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 [quote]Obviously, in the era of no mystery, the previous practice which maintained the correct amount of mystery will either be criticized or called into question[/quote] Adam, the above statement is both disappointing and somewhat hurtful. I believe that there are many good catholics who remain in a state of wonder and awe when we are at Mass, for the mystery of Christ's sacrifice is deeply touching... That having been said, I agree with the point that it is very important to accurately site one's sources. - Your Brother In Christ, Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 [quote name='amarkich' date='Sep 15 2004, 01:40 PM'] Well, who published that document and what exactly did it say? Even if it came from that source, especially if there is no support or evidence to substantiate it, then it is not simply accepted as fact. Obviously, in the era of no mystery, the previous practice which maintained the correct amount of mystery will either be criticized or called into question. The fact that this was not even a direct quote is also quite disheartening for me. If you got an idea from a letter from the Holy Office, that does not constitute as a legitimate claim unless it can be substantiated (even if it is more than just an "idea" and was explicitly stated in the letter). God bless. [/quote] It is an interview published into a book. He even reread it and said that nothing was missaid. He was there during the previous era. He had first hand knowledge. Contrary to popular opinion, there were abuses to the old Mass. What are your sources for saying that there wasn't too much mystery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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