Chris Zewe Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 (edited) [i]What kind of uncivilized, bullying children are you going to raise that go around beating up children who are homeschooled? [/i] As much as I hate to generalize, I have to here. Poor black inner city kids. And at our school a home schooled kid switched to it for some reason or another. He had no idea how to socialize, deal with other people, or accept other religions. He was made fun of for his idiocy and eventually transferred somewhere else where I'm sure he received no better treatment. Edited September 12, 2004 by Chris Zewe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeraMaria Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 [quote name='Chris Zewe' date='Sep 12 2004, 05:04 PM'] Aye, great plan. Let's say they meet a Hindu in an elevator or something somewhere and they ask why he has a dot (I forget what it's called, no offense meant to any Hindus who read this) on his forehead. He'll explain that he's a Hindu and Raphael's son, never having even heard of a Hindu before, will ask him what that is. The Hindu will explain, and, Raphael's child will stand there, pale in the face, waiting desperately for a "I'm just kidding" from the man. When he gets none, Raph's kid will either run away in terror, attempt an exorcism, kill himself from the confusion, attempt to kill the man, or many other things. Keeping people ignorant isn't a good way to do anything. [/quote] Whoever said Raphael would want his kids to grow up ignorant? Okay, if i had kids and homeschooled them it would be, to use an analogy, to give them the vitamins and vaccines they'll need and use when they're out in the world, the strength not to be poisoned by certain aspects of secular society. I think you missed the point. [quote]Home schooling for any reason other than (assuming that circumstances remain as they are) better education is insane. The way you seem to plan on raising your kids is insane. [b]You're[/b] insane.[/quote] It [i]would[/i] be for a better education . An education that would teach them what's right from what is wrong, and how to tell what is true and waht is not. I go to a public school, and I see what happens when some people are educated only through schools like that and nothing at all by parents. Thanks for your patience and charity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 What exactly do you mean by "accept other religions"? Have you seen anyone here (who obviously does not agree with your religion) advocate beating you up? Yet you (who does not "accept" Catholicism) keep condoning, advocating or whatever beating up on homeschooled children. We accept people, we reject ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.R.D Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 there in my prayers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 [quote]Aye, great plan. Let's say they meet a Hindu in an elevator or something somewhere and they ask why he has a dot (I forget what it's called, no offense meant to any Hindus who read this) on his forehead. He'll explain that he's a Hindu and Raphael's son, never having even heard of a Hindu before, will ask him what that is. The Hindu will explain, and, Raphael's child will stand there, pale in the face, waiting desperately for a "I'm just kidding" from the man. When he gets none, Raph's kid will either run away in terror, attempt an exorcism, kill himself from the confusion, attempt to kill the man, or many other things. Keeping people ignorant isn't a good way to do anything.[/quote] Exposing my children objectively to the tenets of Hinduism would not harm them at all. I took a world religions class in high school and it didn't scandalize me a bit. This isn't the type of thing from which I would be protecting my children. It also doesn't mean that my children would be uncharitable or lack tolerance, which you seem to imply by saying that my son would run in terror, attempt an exorcism, kill himself, or kill the Hindu. Furthermore, [i]ignorance[/i] is a lack of knowledge of facts. Protecting my children from the gossip, smears, lies, and scandal of our secular culture does not deprive them of facts, it deprives them of occasions to sin and subjective pseudotruths. [quote]Ew...[/quote] I'll take that as another splinter in my cross. [quote]"Free thinking needs to be abolished in both public and private life." -- Some PM veteran. Also a Catholic.[/quote] I'd like to know the exact source as well as the context. [i]Free thinking[/i] can be taken in two ways: 1. The ability of a person to come up with his own "truths" and decide subjectively what must be the case, even in spite of the facts. 2. The ability of a person to look at the reason why an objective truth really is the case and what implications it has on the world. I think that this quote is most likely talking about the first. [quote]Home schooling for any reason other than (assuming that circumstances remain as they are) better education is insane. The way you seem to plan on raising your kids is insane. [b]You're[/b] insane.[/quote] I don't like personal attacks. My reasons for desiring homeschooling for my future children are geared toward a better education, that is, one without the lies and half-truths contained in the modern, secular education system. This is all about better education. [quote]Pretty words for all of the verbal, mental, and no doubt physical abuse you'd put him through to do so.[/quote] What are you trying to imply, that homeschooling in the Catholic method is centered around abuse, hatred, and fear? You must not have much experience with very many faithful Catholics. Catholicism is about love. [quote]From your pathetic viewpoint they aren't. From any logical thinker's, they're about as contradictory as the following: The statement below is false. The statement above is true.[/quote] Another splinter. 1. No one has the right to reject God because all rights are given by God. To reject God is to go against God and the rights He has given us. Therefore, it would be self-contradictory to reject God and call it one's [i]right[/i] 2. We have the right not to be [b]forced[/b] to do something. This does not mean that we have the right to do otherwise, but only that we have the right not to be threatened with retribution if we do otherwise. God gave us free will, an ability, but not a right. Free will is a thing which can be used to act. A right is an intrinsic rule legitimizing a certain set of actions. The two are apples and oranges and thus cannot be contradictory. [quote]You feel that those are poisons to a nonexistent soul. However, you're poisoning their mind's with your nonsense. Just like Hitler (tactics, not beliefs) and other such people, you're using a bit of psychology -- hit them with everything you've got while they're young because that's when their minds are most malleable.[/quote] Fr. Edward J. Flanagan, the founder of Boys Town, wanted to begin his apostolate because he felt that giving guidance to youth was the best way to mold them into model citizens. This is not comparable to Hitler. Hitler wished to capture the mind and only expose people to certain half-truths and whole lies. They were objectively false. I wish to give my children an education free of that mind-washing which you accuse me of, which is going on in our public schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 [quote]As for giving her the freedom to become a Wiccan, freedom is God-given, not state-given. The state can work to ensure that certain God-given freedoms reach its people, but it cannot give freedoms. No one has the right to reject God, but only the ability. On the other hand, everyone has the right not to be forced to believe in something. These are not contradictory. From your pathetic viewpoint they aren't. From any logical thinker's, they're about as contradictory as the following: The statement below is false. The statement above is true.[/quote] This means (since you seem to not understand simple logical thinking) that, -Freedom is from God, not the state -The state can give people the ability to practice their freedom, it can't give them freedom -No one can be justified in rejecting God, but everyone has the ability to do so (like robbing a bank) -Everyone has the God given right to not be forced into believing anything, even God. Since you have trouble with that... lets make it simplified. Freedom is from God, the state can only protect your abality to give it to you. You can't be "right" and reject God, but no one can be forced into making you believe in God. God bless Chris, Mikey P.S. I'll refrain from saying Pax Christ around you, you tend to not like peace much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Zewe Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 [i]Whoever said Raphael would want his kids to grow up ignorant? [/i] Sure, he may teach them that other religions exist and give them an overview of their beliefs, but since they have little to no exposure to the real world, these people would seem like rare enigmas. When my mom was a kid (no, she wasn't homeschooled) she was brought up as a Catholic, as was everyone in her (public) school. She knew that other religions existed, but when she met a Jew for the first time she was shocked. Take the way Raphael wants to raise his kids and amplify her shock about a thousandfold when Raphael's kids meet someone who believes in something entirely different, like that Hindu. [i]Okay, if i had kids and homeschooled them it would be, to use an analogy, to give them the vitamins and vaccines they'll need and use when they're out in the world, the strength not to be poisoned by certain aspects of secular society.[/i] No, see, when I said "better" I meant "more good"*. Filling your kids' minds with your beliefs before they have a chance to develop their own may sound like a good thing to you, but it really isn't. *What I had really meant (I wouldn't even have had to comment on this if you hadn't been a complete idiot and said that a Catholic education is better) was a better quality. [i]What exactly do you mean by "accept other religions"? Have you seen anyone here (who obviously does not agree with your religion) advocate beating you up? Yet you (who does not "accept" Catholicism) keep condoning, advocating or whatever beating up on homeschooled children. We accept people, we reject ideas. [/i] You impose your religion on all non-believers and tell them that if they don't accept your beliefs as truth then they'll burn eternally after their death. I'm on a Christian board as a non-Christian. Do you honestly expect me to converse with you in a manner that suggests that I believe in your religion? Go to a Shinto board and give it a try not pointing out every contradiction in their beliefs and arguing with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Chris stop making personal attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 [quote]He says that no one has the right to reject God, but they have a right to believe what they want.[/quote] The second clause mistates my argument. [quote] Any non-God based religion would be legit and illegit according to that. As would atheism.[/quote] You only think this because you misunderstood my second premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Zewe Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Raphael seems unable to assume a position of thinking outside of his own clichéd beliefs, so I'll ignore him. [i]This means (since you seem to not understand simple logical thinking) that, -Freedom is from God, not the state -The state can give people the ability to practice their freedom, it can't give them freedom -No one can be justified in rejecting God, but everyone has the ability to do so (like robbing a bank) -Everyone has the God given right to not be forced into believing anything, even God. Since you have trouble with that... lets make it simplified. Freedom is from God, the state can only protect your abality to give it to you. You can't be "right" and reject God, but no one can be forced into making you believe in God. God bless Chris, Mikey P.S. I'll refrain from saying Pax Christ around you, you tend to not like peace much. [/i] So you're saying that no one has the right not to believe in God but they have to as long as they're not forced. The subject matter of this quote has been changed so much it's lost all sensibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 [quote]Sure, he may teach them that other religions exist and give them an overview of their beliefs, but since they have little to no exposure to the real world, these people would seem like rare enigmas. When my mom was a kid (no, she wasn't homeschooled) she was brought up as a Catholic, as was everyone in her (public) school. She knew that other religions existed, but when she met a Jew for the first time she was shocked. Take the way Raphael wants to raise his kids and amplify her shock about a thousandfold when Raphael's kids meet someone who believes in something entirely different, like that Hindu.[/quote] I can't much help it if not many Hindus live near me. If a Hindu stopped by my house, I would treat him as charitably as any other. I have met a Hindu woman and she was very kind. There is a marked difference between teaching facts about what Hindus believe and teaching my children how to put Hinduism into practice. The first is honest and good. The second, when applied to all areas and not just Hinduism, is guaranteed to lead my children to apostacy, either by pantheism or agnosticism. [quote]You impose your religion on all non-believers and tell them that if they don't accept your beliefs as truth then they'll burn eternally after their death. I'm on a Christian board as a non-Christian. Do you honestly expect me to converse with you in a manner that suggests that I believe in your religion? Go to a Shinto board and give it a try not pointing out every contradiction in their beliefs and arguing with them.[/quote] You could converse with us in a charitable way. More importantly, you could read up on what the Church really teaches instead of insinuating that it is all a nuch of hatefilled lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeTeamFamily Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 chris.....in all of your posts, i have not seen one solid argument as to what point you are trying to make all ive seen is judgements on micah (raphael) and his decisions....also ive seen assumptions on things that are unfair....please stop or i am going to report your uncharitable behavior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 [quote name='Chris Zewe' date='Sep 12 2004, 05:37 PM'] [i]Whoever said Raphael would want his kids to grow up ignorant? [/i] Sure, he may teach them that other religions exist and give them an overview of their beliefs, but since they have little to no exposure to the real world, these people would seem like rare enigmas. When my mom was a kid (no, she wasn't homeschooled) she was brought up as a Catholic, as was everyone in her (public) school. She knew that other religions existed, but when she met a Jew for the first time she was shocked. Take the way Raphael wants to raise his kids and amplify her shock about a thousandfold when Raphael's kids meet someone who believes in something entirely different, like that Hindu. [i]Okay, if i had kids and homeschooled them it would be, to use an analogy, to give them the vitamins and vaccines they'll need and use when they're out in the world, the strength not to be poisoned by certain aspects of secular society.[/i] No, see, when I said "better" I meant "more good"*. Filling your kids' minds with your beliefs before they have a chance to develop their own may sound like a good thing to you, but it really isn't. *What I had really meant (I wouldn't even have had to comment on this if you hadn't been a complete idiot and said that a Catholic education is better) was a better quality. [i]What exactly do you mean by "accept other religions"? Have you seen anyone here (who obviously does not agree with your religion) advocate beating you up? Yet you (who does not "accept" Catholicism) keep condoning, advocating or whatever beating up on homeschooled children. We accept people, we reject ideas. [/i] You impose your religion on all non-believers and tell them that if they don't accept your beliefs as truth then they'll burn eternally after their death. I'm on a Christian board as a non-Christian. Do you honestly expect me to converse with you in a manner that suggests that I believe in your religion? Go to a Shinto board and give it a try not pointing out every contradiction in their beliefs and arguing with them. [/quote] What do you consider the real world Chris? The hookers and the drug dealers on the corner? The smoking in the bathrooms, the unedible food in the cafeteria, the bullies in the hallways? What is wrong with bringing a child up with values and good ideas, afraid it might be contagious. Or should we let them run wild like little savages, and pick up their beliefs from the gutter or the hookers on the corner? Funnny, nobody here said anything about imposing our values on anyone else, except you... You don't have to act as if you believe our religion, but you can act in a civil manner and respect our freedom to our own beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 and you could know more about homeschooling than you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeraMaria Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 [quote name='Chris Zewe' date='Sep 12 2004, 05:37 PM'] [i]Whoever said Raphael would want his kids to grow up ignorant? [/i] Sure, he may teach them that other religions exist and give them an overview of their beliefs, but since they have little to no exposure to the real world, these people would seem like rare enigmas. When my mom was a kid (no, she wasn't homeschooled) she was brought up as a Catholic, as was everyone in her (public) school. She knew that other religions existed, but when she met a Jew for the first time she was shocked. Take the way Raphael wants to raise his kids and amplify her shock about a thousandfold when Raphael's kids meet someone who believes in something entirely different, like that Hindu. [/quote] Still missing the point... Homeschooling kids wouldn't be to keep them ignorant but the opposite. Instead of them entering schools at a young age where some of the stuff they're taught is drilled into their brains (my little brother is in a public school in the third grade and already being taught that "soon you'll be able to have sex, remember condoms") you are educating them yourself. They wouldn't be shocked to meet people from other religions, I mean come on, it's not as if you're walling your children into your house and suddenly letting them out, they DO know about "the world", after all they live in it. They'll be taught to respect other religions, as well as knowing their own. [quote]*What I had really meant (I wouldn't even have had to comment on this if you hadn't been a complete idiot and said that a Catholic education is better) was a better quality.[/quote] The quality [i]would[/i] be better. They learn everything that's taught in school (or even more), minus the filth, lies, corruption and "me me me" selfish attitude they learn in some schools. I don't appreciate being called an idiot. [quote]Do you honestly expect me to converse with you in a manner that suggests that I believe in your religion? [/quote] No. But some charity would be nice to see. I have yet to see anyone here be uncharitable towards you. God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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