Faith

[MichaelFilo]

We are saved through grace..... ok.. thats fine...

What happends to faith? There are quote a few passages in the bible that say we are saved through faith (not alone, of course). Where does faith go into all of this... maybe I just forgot something.... any help is appreciated.

God bless,

Mikey

Edited September 9, 2004 by MichaelFilo

[LiL Kat Said]

Well Pope John Paul says that faith is "contact with the mystery of God." It's a free gift from God, and without God's help we could not believe. but faith is also an authentically human act. It's like a response to God's gift, a surrendering of ourselves to God. When we believe or surrender ourselves to the mystery of God or faith is deepened.
Faith needs to be sustained by prayer, study, reflectionand the regular reception of the sacraments.


I hope i helped some

[MichaelFilo]

can you connect it to salvation now... which is where my problem is comming in.

God bless,

Mikey

[phatcatholic]

one pretty cool way to see how grace and faith work together for our salvation is to search the bible for verses in which the words "faith" and "grace" both appear. such a search reveals the following relevant verses:

--[b]Rom 1:5[/b] through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations,

--[b]Rom 4:16[/b] That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants--not only to the adherents of the law but also to those who share the faith of Abraham, for he is the father of us all,

--[b]Eph 2:8[/b] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God--

--[b]1 Tim 1:14[/b] and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.

i think what these verses reveal is that faith is how we work with God in his desire to save us by his grace. faith is our response to his grace, our accepting of his gift of salvation. it is in this sense that faith saves.

does that help? this was basically my short answer. i can go into further detail if necessary. let me know....

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[MichaelFilo]

Faith is our response to his grace? I alwasy thought that faith was a grace, so our response to grace is faith which is a grace?

I am having so much trouble with this salvation stuff. I ultimatly don't care, as I know how to lead a life that could possibly lead me to being saved, but its more of a thing for my own knowledge.

God bless,

Mikey

[StColette]

Yes, God gives us the grace to have Faith, it is our response to either except that grace or not.

does that help ?

[MichaelFilo]

Err, it doesn't help in the fact that I still don't get what Faith has to do with salvation. I mean we've all seen the scripture, (as we've all talked to protestants). But we are saved Sola Gratia (correct? Grace alone?). So that such verses that would suggest we are saved through Faith would be total lies?

Some protestants hold that we are saved by Faith through grace. Obviously this isn't the Catholic interpretation, but this is what really got me confused. We are saved through grace, and yet, so many verses suggesting salvation through Faith.

here is what I can make of it so far, Faith is a grace, and so we are saved throug it, but it is a grace, and so we are still saved by grace alone.

Please help the lost,

God bless,

Mikey

[Cure of Ars]

Grace = Gift


Gift of what?

The works of faith, hope, and love.

[RemnantRules]

Blessed Be God!!!


Faith is a gift from God which enables us to believe in all the teachings of Christ and the Church. It is through our own free will believing in Christ.

[b]What are works?[/b]
Works are putting into practice in our daily life the teachings of Christ and the Church. Basically it is walking the talk.

[b]What's necessary for Salvation?[/b]
Three things. Grace, a free gift from God, which gives us the life of God and is necessary for Salvation. Fairth, which is the consent of our free will to believe in God and his teachings. Works, which are the practical everyday living out of those teaching aided by Grace.

[b]What if anyone of the three (Grace, Faith, or Works) is missing?[/b]
Without Grace you cannot have Salcation. So you must have Grace. Gaith is our acceptance of Grace through our Freewill. So if you don't have Faith you won't be able to receive Grace. So you must have Faith. Scripture says in James 2:17, "So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead." So we clearly must have all three to have Salvation.

[b]What other scriptures talk about the importance of Grace, Faith, and Works?[/b]
Philippians 2:12 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION with fear and trembling."
Ephesians 2:8-10 says, "For by GRACE you have saved through FAITH, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so not one may boast. For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the GOOD WORKS that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them." This verse sums it up well; We are saved by GRACE; through FAITH; acted out in WORKS. There is a natural flow: first we perceive God's gift of Grace; second we receive that gift though Faith and third and final we respond to the gift with works. Works always comes last and is aided by Grace and Faith.

[b]So how do I answer the question, "Are you Saved?"[/b]
Here are 3 answers that you can give:
1. Iam saved by Grace, through Faith acted out in Works or Love and then quote Ephesians 2:8-10 to back up your statement.
2. Also you can say that you have been saved because Jesus died for you; that you are being saved because you accept Christ's Grace daily and that you hope to be saved and be with Christ forever in heaven.
3. If people ask me that question or "Do you think you will go to heaven?" I tell them that heaven is eternal union with God. So if my life through Grace, Faith and Works is united to God on earth and that is my goal each day, each hour, each second then i see no reason why that would not continue after my death. 2 Timothy 2:12 says, "If we disown Him, he will also disown us." So through Grace, Faith and Works I embrace Him not disown Him. If there are times that i disown him through mortal sin, i quickly want to repent, go to confession, and reunite with Him.

[b]What does once saved always saved mean?[/b]
Once saved always saved is a belief not held by Catholics that states that once you have accepted Christ as your personal Lord and Savior then you are assured/guaranteed Salvation.

[b]Can I be sure that I am saved?[/b]
NO! Only God can judge, we cannot even judge ourselves. Since Grace, Faith and Works are necessary for Salvation, we have to ask if any of these things can be lost once they have been embraced. Grace can be lost through mortal sin. Just as easily as we accept the gift of Grace, we can also reject that gift, sadly enough sometimes after it has been accepted. We can definitely lose Faith and stop believing in the teachings of Christ and the Church. We see this in those who leave the Faith or only hold part of Christ and the Chruches teachings. And most definitely we know that it is possible to lose Works or Charity in living out the will of God. THis comes mostly through Luke warmness, Laziness, fear and distractions.

[b]So Salvation can be lost?[/b]
Yes and there is scripture that tells us of this. Check out these verses:
Ezekiel 18:21-24: talks about a righteous man turning toward wickedness
2 Timothy 2:12: If we disown Him, He will disown us.
Revelation 22: 14-19: we see that God can take away peoples share in the tree of life
1 Timothy 3:6 people can fall into condemnation
2 Peter 2:20-21: people who believe because entangled and overcome by sin.
Romans 11:22: Continue in kindness or be cut off.
1 Corinthians 15:2: must hold firmly to Gospel or belief was in vain.

[b]What about Romans 10:9 it says, "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Doesn't this mean that all you have to do is confess or say that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart and that is all?[/b]What about Matthew 7:21? It says, "Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven." The fact is that we should never take one verse without looking at the verse within the context of all scripture. There are many more scriptures talking about the necessity of Grace, Faith and Works that just Grace and Faith. All three are necessary.

[b]How do the Sacraments help with Salvation?[/b]
Sacraments are outward signs of Grace. Sacraments is the receptive of Grace through Faith and these Sacraments always help us to live out that Faith and Grace through works.
[b][i][u][U]Baptism[/u]: [/U][/i][/b]given the Grace of forgiveness of sin and adoption into the Family of God and given the Grace to live out the Baptismal vows of rejecting sin and embracing good.[gives us spiritual birth.]
[i][b][u]Confirmation[/u][/b][/i]: given the Grace of strength to live out the Baptismal vows with the guidance and gifts of the Holy Spirit.[gives us strength to sustain spiritual life]
[u][i][b]Reconciliation[/b][/i][/u]: given the Grace of forgiveness of sin; life a second baptism it reunites us with Christ.[gives us spiritual healing when we are sick]
[b][i][u]THE EUCHARIST[/u][/i][/b]: given the Grace of Jesus Himself who is our food for the journey. The Eucharist is our nourishment.[gives us food necessary to spiritually live]
[u][i][b]Holy Orders & Matrimony[/b][/i][/u]: given the Grace to live/ work/ obey the commandments of God and to live life to the fullest and to give the gift of oneself through their vocation.
[u][i][b]Anointing of the Sick[/b][/i][/u]: given the Grace to be prepared through forgiveness and the Eucharist to enter into eternal life.



[b]What are some works that I can do to practice my Catholic Faith?[/b]
Corporal and Spiritual Works of Mercy are great ways to practice your awesome Catholic Faith. The works of mercy are charitable actions by which we come to the aid of our neighbor in his spirtual and bodily necessities. Instructin, advising, consoling, comforting are spiritual works of mercy, as are forgiving and bearing wrongs patiently. The corporal works of mercy consist especially in feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and imprisoned, and burying the dead.


I hope this helps!

I must say thanks to Matt for giving me this .


God Bless
Jason Gregory
RemnantRoadie

[RemnantRules]

Blessed Be God!!!



sorry i posted this twice. couldn't tell.

God Bless
Jason Gregory
RemnantRoadie

Edited September 10, 2004 by RemnantRules

[StColette]

Yay for Matt and Yay to Jason for stepping into the Apologetics board

[MichaelFilo]

So the Catholic Church doens't hold Sola Gratia as a article of Faith... mmk... just checking.

God bless,

Mikey

Ty that makes so much more sense.

[Guest JeffCR07]

MichaelFilo, the Church teaches that we are saved by Grace Alone. In a post I did a really long time ago, I used an analogy to make it clearer, but I can't find it, so i'll just re-type it here:


There is a man in a blank, empty white room. (This is unregenerate man). There are two doors that he can walk through. One door leads to a bottomless pit, the other leads to a blazing inferno. The man has Free Will, in that he can choose which door he wishes to go through, however, the man cannot, by his own free will, escape death.

However, God, through Grace, creates a third door, leading to paradise. Moreover, God, through Grace, brings the man to know that the door exists. So, the man now has three options. He can choose death in the first two doors, or life in the third. If the man chooses life, we know that [i]even that choice[/i] has its root source in God's Grace, for it was Grace that made the door, and Grace that chose it (remember, it is only by Grace that the man is even aware of the third option, and so the choice to take door 3 is inspired by Grace).

Now, where do faith and works come in? If you really want to seperate the two (which no one should) Faith is the believe that walking through the third door will lead you to paridise, while works (properly understood) is walking through the door.

But watch out: If you have faith, but no works, you will never get to paradise, and, in the same vein, if you do not believe, even your works will be to no avail, for you will be walking through a door, just not the third.

Thus, in catholic theology, we are saved [i]by grace alone[/i], and faith/works are two aspects of the same effect of that Grace.

- Your Brother In Christ, Jeff

[MichaelFilo]

Jeff...... Thank you soooooooo much.......this makes it VERY clear.

God bless,

Mikey

[franciscanheart]

wow, yeah, i really like that analogy too, Jeff. that was good.