Protestant Hymns And Worship Songs

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='PedroX' date='Apr 10 2005, 07:47 PM'] People are confused, perhaps intentionally, by songs that place us in the perspective of the Redeemer. The song "Ashes" comes to mind, as does "I am the bread of life."

I am with Cmom (as I usually am) in that I am good and tired of the simple. If I wanted simple, I could have stayed a Protestant where we continually watered down theology until it was meaningless. So was our music. So is most of the OCP music out today.

Whew. End of rant. must finish paper on the Eucharist.

peace... [/quote]
Good grief, Pedro... you're turning into a grumpy old man before your time. (Did they make you quit smoking?)

[Wolfie]

the SIMPLE part of it is the idea that it has to be singable...musically. MUCH of OCP stuff is NOT...its so wordy , not catchy....not simple melodies...no one can sing along with it...

Being simple does not mean being fluffy. Being simple does NOT mean that it lacks depth.

I can't find it now, but there is some liturgy document that calls for "simplicity" some how.



JPII I love you!

[Nicole8223]

[quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Jan 15 2005, 03:44 PM'] For some reason the P&W song [i]This is the Air I Breathe [/i]doesn't settle well with me. It's mostly because of the verse "this is my daily bread, spoken to me." It is very true that we are nourished in hearing the Word of God and reading the Bible, but anything about bread also needs to focus toward the Eucharist, and when the song was written I highly doubt it included that intention. For the same reason I think it's a little bit innapropriate for use during communion and adoration, but maybe I'm just thinking about it too much. [/quote]
I feel the same way about that one. Actually, when my prayer community sings it, we change the words to "This is my daily bread. Your very body, broken for me." It was much more Catholic then!

[Donna]

My sss nasty little Latin opinion will remain anonymousss.

(Some ppl can learn to sing the whole Mass in Latin. I've heard it in a pole barn church.

Must the entire congregation sing?

I never would when they -sssss- [i]made[/i] me).

Ooops, ssslipped.

[Antonius]

IMHO, we should first and foremost make an effort to return to those classic hits of yesteryear... Gregorian Chant! I mean, c'mon, my brothers and sisters! This is our culture, heritage, tradition as being Catholics! It was made for the Church and has been sung for 2000 years. It really is the best way to have a Mass.

However, I understand that most musical directors are not trained in that way. Since that is the case as of right now, every effort must be made to choose songs that are simply beautiful and theologically deep, just as the Pange Lingua is.

I believe it is possible for someone to write a beautiful hymn today that is not necessarily Gregorian chant and be acceptable at Mass. The Italian hymn [i]Ave Maria, Splendore del Mattino[/i] is really beautiful.

[quote][i]Ave Maria, Splendore del Mattino[/i] (with translation)

[i]Ave Maria, splendore del mattino
Puro e` il tuo sguardo e umile il tuo cuore,
Protegga il nostro popolo in cammino
La tenerezza del tuo vero amore

Madre non sono degno di guardarti
Pero` fammi sentire la tua voce,
Fa` che io porti a tutti la tua pace
E possano conoscerti e amarti.

Madre, tu che soccorri i figli tuoi
Fa` in modo che nessuno se ne vada,
Sostieni la sua croce e la sua strada,
Fa` che cammini sempre in mezzo a noi.

Madre non sono....

Ave Maria, splendore del mattino
Puro e` il tuo sguardo ed umile il tuo cuore,
Protegga il nostro popolo in cammino

La tenerezza del tuo vero amore.
Protegga il nostro popolo in cammino
La tenerezza del tuo vero amore.[/i]

(translation)

[i]Hail Mary, Splendor of the Morning

Hail Mary, Splendor of the Morning
Your gaze is pure and your heart is humble.
May the tenderness of your true love
Protect your people on their path.

Mother, I am not worthy to look at you,
But let me hear your voice.
Allow me to bring your peace to all,
So that they may know and love you.

Mother, you who run to the aid of your children,
May you allow no one to stray,
Sustain his cross and his path,
May he always walk among us.[/i][/quote]

Now that is awesome. I was really moved when I first learned that song and sang it, in Italian of course.

But our problem is that we need songs in English... My humble suggestions are as follows:
[b]1.[/b] If it sounds like it could be on the radio then it's probably not cool. I detest pop songs at Mass. Sing them at a Praise and Worship concert, not the Holy Mass...
[b]2.[/b] If the lyrics are of the "we are Jesus" variety. Yes, its a beautiful song, but we do not need to be singing Jesus' words. The hymn is a prayer that is sung! It's ok for the priest and the lectors to proclaim God's word, but not in a hymn, which is a prayer.
[b]3.[/b] If it's terribly complex... Look, the choir is supposed to be leading the congregation in singing the hymn-prayers, not performing. That's nice that you can pull off cool musical things.... but, once again, save it for a concert of sorts. You can even do the concert in the church before Mass! But not during the Mass.

The most important thing to remember is that we are singing these songs to God, we are talking to Him! We don't need to tell him how great we are or act like Him using His words.

Why do we hold ourselves back from the most beautiful and deepest of sacred music?

[PedroX]

If you want to hear music and chant, visit a strong Benedictine monastery. Nobody does it like people who have been doing it for 1500 years. Worship with the Benedictines is the best.

peace...

(no, they haven't made me quit smoking yet! Its just one of those weeks!)

[Wolfie]

Antonius said:

"Gregorian Chant! I mean, c'mon, my brothers and sisters! This is our culture, heritage, tradition as being Catholics! It was made for the Church and has been sung for 2000 years. It really is the best way to have a Mass"



Dude...come on. GREGORIAN chant has NOT been sung for 2000 years. Gregorian chant came when GREGORY was around.

Careful with your statements. I'd like to remind everyone that there were Masses done BEFORE it was turned all to Latin and BEFORE it was in chant.

From the Catholic encyclopedia:
"The name Gregorian chant points to Gregory the Great (590-604), to whom a pretty constant tradition ascribes a certain final arrangement of the Roman chant. It is first met in the writings of William of Hirschau, though Leo IV (847-855) already speaks of the cantus St. Gregorii."

Remember also, there are other chants besides gregorian.


I know when I was a kid, and chant was done, it grated on my nerves. Made me hate church. icck ick...terrible memories. Please don't criticize this part...this is seriously my actual reaction and feelings.

[Antonius]

Ok, I admit, I do sound like a madman when I say that "gregorian chant" has been around for 2000 years. Let me clarify.

"Chant" has been around for at least 2000 years. [url="http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/a/c/act138/italianmusic.html"]At the beginning of this webpage, [/url]you will find confirmation of what my high school teacher taught me. The Ancient Romans did not leave us any musical notation, the earliest form of musical notation is in medieval sacred chants, perhaps not necessarily Gregorian, but sacred nonetheless. My teacher said that we believe that Roman music probably sounded like "gregorian chant" since that is the closest thing we have and styles in the middle ages do not change like they do today in our fast paced society.

So, I was not being clear by saying "Gregorian chants." What I meant was that, since the beginning of the Chruch, in the East and the West, there is a certain style of [b][i]sacred[/i][/b] music. It is a chant, with a simple melody and deep lyrics.

I am sorry that you do not like the chants in Church. I grew up liking "On Eagle's Wings" but now that song burns my ears. There just is something so beautiful that I experience now in true, liturgical music.

[Noel's angel]

we have a parish based First Holy Communion programme where once a month, all the kids and their parents come to Sunday Mass for a special celebration. During what should be the Homily, the curate gathers all the kids around the front of the Chapel and starts asking them questions, there is only one reading and at the end the choir have to sing the most rediculous 'hymn' called 'connected'. we used to have a little girl playin sleigh bells during it, but thankfully that has stopped. It is the most irratating thing ever and half the congregation dont know the words and start singing things like 'ejected, ejected u and i are ejected' among other things...

[savedbygrace]

How do Catholics feel about Borning Cry?

[theculturewarrior]

I don't know, but I like your screename.