Protestant Hymns And Worship Songs

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote]Just a question, why do so many people look for the limits of what is allowed instead of just singing Catholic hymns (really, they should be singing Gregorian Chant anyway, which would eliminate the heretical lyrics and sources).[/quote]

I agree. At mass instead of singing hertical songs with wacky theology, we should by singing gregorian chant. It is the only valid type of music in the mass. When i go to mass i feel like a protestant, with all these crazy songs. Don't push the limits of correcet hymns, we should stick with the traditional gregorian Chants

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 25 2005, 12:29 AM']
I agree. At mass instead of singing hertical songs with wacky theology, we should by singing gregorian chant. It is the only valid type of music in the mass. When i go to mass i feel like a protestant, with all these crazy songs. Don't push the limits of correcet hymns, we should stick with the traditional gregorian Chants [/quote]
Gregorian chant is certainly not the only music allowed at Mass.

[CarpeDiem88]

Uh Amazing Grace, no offense to anyone, but it has history behind it. It is a Protestant hymn, however it was adapted from slaves on plantations in the South. And I should know. I am a Southerner, just transplanted in PA.


Oh and btw, most of the Protestant hymns are old Catholic ones. Keep that in mind before you start picking everything apart.

Edited March 25, 2005 by CarpeDiem88

[hopeful1]

[quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Jan 15 2005, 04:44 PM'] For some reason the P&W song [i]This is the Air I Breathe [/i]doesn't settle well with me. It's mostly because of the verse "this is my daily bread, spoken to me." It is very true that we are nourished in hearing the Word of God and reading the Bible, but anything about bread also needs to focus toward the Eucharist, and when the song was written I highly doubt it included that intention. For the same reason I think it's a little bit innapropriate for use during communion and adoration, but maybe I'm just thinking about it too much. [/quote]
actually i thought about that once or twice too, and we use that song alot for communion too. it doesn't bother me too much so i feel like it's still appropriate, although if you really had an issue about it, maybe switch the lyrics around to make the theology fit better, for example " This is the air i breathe (2x), your very word spoken to me. this is my daily bread (2x) your holy presence living in me". does that make it work better?


or if you really wanted to strech it, this is my daily bread (the true presence of the eucharist), your very word spoken to me ( Jesus said it was so in the bible, so it's true!) come on , work with me here!

Edited March 25, 2005 by hopeful1

[hopeful1]

[quote name='melporcristo' date='Jan 27 2005, 03:35 AM'] the band leader changed the words to the song "Breathe" to : [i]this is my daily bread, your very flesh, broken for me.[/i] It works! [/quote]
or you could do what he did -_-

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='CarpeDiem88' date='Mar 25 2005, 01:31 AM'] Uh Amazing Grace, no offense to anyone, but it has history behind it. It is a Protestant hymn, however it was adapted from slaves on plantations in the South. And I should know. I am a Southerner, just transplanted in PA.


Oh and btw, most of the Protestant hymns are old Catholic ones. Keep that in mind before you start picking everything apart. [/quote]
where in PA?

[Mickey's_Girl]

[quote name='jgirl' date='Jan 27 2005, 02:55 PM'] About the Lord of the Dance, our parish also had a thing for that song. I always loved how the tune was so happy and upbeat while, I think, one of the phrases was something like, "They ripped and they stripped and they hung me high and they left me there on the cross to die!" I couldn't help laughing because they were totally oblivious to what they were singing. It was sad, but funny. [/quote]
AAAGGGHHH!!!

Thank you. That song drives me crazy. I love the tune, and the words are kind of cool (in a Chestertonian sort of way), but OH MY GOSH! The tune is all happy, and the "whipped/stripped" verse is just SO inappropriate to the tune! Drives me nuts every time we sing it...I keep wanting to like it, but THAT VERSE!!!

MG

[Aloysius]

Gregorian Chant is to have "pride of place" in the Liturgy of the Mass. Talk to a psychologist, they'll tell you why that is actually more spiritually beneficial (they'll use their psycho-babbel, but basically this is what they're saying) than most types of music.

that said, other hymns can and should be used at mass. they're great! Now, for something like the Agnus Dei, since Chant has pride of place for things that are specifically LITURGICAL, I would pick Gregorian Chant for. But for processional and closing hymns, or for any other hymn that is not specified in the liturgy you can and should pick whatever you want.

basically, I wouldn't recommend taking something that's supposed to be said in mass and putting it to some praise/worship music stuff, cause things specifically liturgical ought to consider gregorian chant first. But for the parts where we're going to have a song, it's fine to use normal songs.

and who the heck is reading Amazing Grace AND the Bible and finding the thing contrary to Catholic Teaching?

[quote] Amazing grace! How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost, but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.
[color=#FF0000]Yep, grace has SAVED me.  That doesn't mean I couldn't lose my salvation, but why the heck would you even be mentioning that scary and horrible possibility in an inspirational song?[/color]
'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears relieved.
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed.
[color=#FF0000]Grace works through faith, when we begin to believe, we begin to have faith, grace 'appears' in our soul, works through us[/color]
Through many dangers, toils and snares
I have already come;
'Tis grace hath brought me safe thus far
And grace will lead me home.
[color=#FF0000]Amen, Alleleiuia, and Hallelujah!  Grace will lead me home.  Now, the obsessive 'Catholic' rationalist will say, it might not necessarily lead you home because you could end up not peresevering to the end.  but seriously folks, don't y'all want to say "grace will lead me home".  If you can't say that, where is your hope and joy in the light of Christ and the path towards salvation you're on.  Your hope in salvation should be STRONG.  [/color]
The Lord has promised good to me
His word my hope secures;
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.
[color=#FF0000]yep. You don't have a promise of good through the faith you have found?  What kind of Catholic are you?  Your hope should be secure.  That's not to say that you couldn't choose to walk away, but you shouldn't want to choose to walk away [/color]
Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
and mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.
[color=#FF0000]seriously, stop readin this with your rationalistic theological glasses and see the spiritual hope in this statement. [/color]
When we've been there ten thousand years
Bright shining as the sun,
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Than when we've first begun.[
[color=#FF0000]Again, where is the problem???[/color]
[/quote]

Amazing Grace rules, and you know what it did? It saved a wretch like me. Grace saved me, grace is saving me, and grace will eternally save me if I persevere to the end. That's have a reasonable hope that we will persevere to the end, because God will hold us tight and do anything short of infringing upon the free will He gave to us to make sure we are saved.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

Well With all these different hymns to pick from, with no set rules, some parishes will wrongly pick protestant hymns. Im not agianst normal hymns, its just that im afriad that parishes are using un-Catholic hymns, with incorrect theology. With the Gregorian hymns, no has to worry wether they are theologically "Sound"

just putting my two cents in,

sam

[Guest Eremite]

Here's a critique of "Amazing Grace" and "Mary Did You Know" by EWTNs Colin Donovan, STL:

[url="http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=371921&Forums=0&Experts=8&Days=3000&Author=&Keyword=Amazing+Grace&pgnu=1&groupnum=0"]http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.as...nu=1&groupnum=0[/url]

[Aloysius]

I love EWTN, but give me a break. if we don't want to say amazing grace has saved a wretch like me, we might as well start editing the freakin bible. he's reading way too much into this song. the fact is that it doesn't specify anything about what type of grace it is talking about and we do receive some freakin amazing grace when we first believe in Jesus. it is quite a stretch to say "amazing" grace means "sanctifying" grace

Ephesians 2:5 is inspired scripture... some people interpret it to mean total depravity.. but that's not what it says "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together in Christ (by whose grace you are saved)"

same thing with the statement "saved a wretch like me"... some people say that means total depravity, but some say it means I was a wretch and now grace has saved me... (Rom. 8:24; Eph. 2:5,8; 2 Tim. 1:9; Titus 3:5)

Mary did you know.. maybe, but again you're reading too much into it. The only reason Mary was able to be immaculately conceived and sinless her own life was because Jesus died on the cross. you understand that theology right, the timeless application to Mary in order to make her the new Eve. Christ made her sinless, by applying His sacrifice mystically to her outside of time at the moment He created her.

[Guest Eremite]

Aloysius,

The Koran has some beautiful praises of God, but I wouldn't want Liturgical hymns that have a Muslim background. Outside of the Sacred Liturgy, I would have no problem with someone enjoying Amazing Grace or the divine praises of the Koran. But the Liturgy is a unique experience in that it is founded on the principle Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi. It is the official worship of the Church, and so we must be loathed to compromise a Catholic ethos, even a little.

The abundant wealth of traditional Catholic hymnology makes the admittance of Protestant hymns dubious at best. The last thing we need today is more Protestant influence on lay Catholics.

Edited March 26, 2005 by Eremite

[Aloysius]

I can think of something we need even less of: the alienation of potential protestant converts. there is nothing wrong with these songs and we want a true ecumenism to bring all Christians into the ONE FLOCK that Jesus Christ intended for His people.

Taking songs from the tradition of separted imperfect Christianity so long as we're taking the true parts and not te false ones is a good thing and is beneficial to the unity of Christianity.

There is a big difference between Islam and Protestantism.

[FutureSoror]

I think that the problems with these songs are small enough that we can surely enjoy them at home without any harm, but that it makes sense we should use Catholic music in the Sacred Liturgy. Amazing Grace is a beautiful song, but do we need to use it in the Mass? I don't think so. There are plenty of other beautiful Catholic hymns we can use.

[sweetpea316]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Mar 26 2005, 05:10 PM'] I can think of something we need even less of: the alienation of potential protestant converts. [/quote]
I wouldn't go so far as saying alienation, but just maybe not keeping in mind that there are Protestant people here who for them, thats all that they've been raised to know and sing during church. For me, its a little hard to sit here and read people 'bashing' what I've grown up to learn to believe just because its how my parents were raised and raised us kids also, but then again, I am one of those potential protestant converts that you mentioned. I personally just love to sing praises to the Lord, and as long as they aren't obviously wrong and are in accordance to God's word, I'm up for it. But yes, FutureSoror does have a good point about what is sung at home, or listened to on the radio, and what is used during mass. There is a big difference there. Just thought I'd put my thoughts out on this topic, because I've grown to love lots of hymns that are more protestant in nature, but I totally respect the Catholic Church and recognize that some of them wouldn't be appropriate for use there. God bless.