Ziggamafu Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 So, I know a guy who is about to die (though prayerfully a miracle will occur) and is a baptized, more or less anti-Catholic Protestant. He's very wise, and in many ways very intelligent. Although he has made his fair share of mistakes and committed sins, he has amazing integrity, dignity, honor, and dedication. As far as morals and cleanliness go, he stands out among many. If he lacked anything, it was in social skills. He had a bad temper, judged often, bore grudges, and could sometimes be quite inconsiderate or even cruel. He loved animals and was full of compassion. He went to church, prayed, and reflected on his love for Christ regularly. My question? [b]What can Church teaching determine are the best odds for his eternal destination?[/b] And what action, if any, should I take? I know enough of the Church that I could shake the faith in Protestantism he has held for so very long...but would that be the loving thing to do, right before his death? Or should I trust in God's Grace and his current relationship with Christ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 [quote]So, I know a guy who is about to die (though prayerfully a miracle will occur) and is a baptized, more or less anti-Catholic Protestant. He's very wise, and in many ways very intelligent. Although he has made his fair share of mistakes and committed sins, he has amazing integrity, dignity, honor, and dedication. As far as morals and cleanliness go, he stands out among many. If he lacked anything, it was in social skills. He had a bad temper, judged often, bore grudges, and could sometimes be quite inconsiderate or even cruel. He loved animals and was full of compassion. He went to church, prayed, and reflected on his love for Christ regularly.[/quote] Sounds pretty Christian and human to me. May God have mercy on his soul. [quote]What can Church teaching determine are the best odds for his eternal destination?[/quote] The Church is not in the habit of making good on odds. However, the Church teaches this about baptism. [i]The different effects of Baptism are signified by the perceptible elements of the sacramental rite. Immersion in water symbolizes not only death and purification, but also regeneration and renewal. Thus the two principal effects are purification from sins and new birth in the Holy Spirit.[/i] (CCC 1262) [i]In the waters of Baptism, we have been "washed . . . sanctified . . . justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God." Our Father calls us to holiness in the whole of our life, and since "he is the source of [our] life in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, and . . .sanctification," both his glory and our life depend on the hallowing of his name in us and by us. Such is the urgency of our first petition.[/i] (CCC 2813) [i]Those who die in God's grace and friendship and are perfectly purified live for ever with Christ. They are like God for ever, for they "see him as he is," face to face: By virtue of our apostolic authority, we define the following: According to the general disposition of God, the souls of all the saints . . . and other faithful who died after receiving Christ's holy Baptism (provided they were not in need of purification when they died, . . . or, if they then did need or will need some purification, when they have been purified after death, . . .) already before they take up their bodies again and before the general judgment - and this since the Ascension of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ into heaven - have been, are and will be in heaven, in the heavenly Kingdom and celestial paradise with Christ, joined to the company of the holy angels. Since the Passion and death of our Lord Jesus Christ, these souls have seen and do see the divine essence with an intuitive vision, and even face to face, without the mediation of any creature.[/i] (CCC 1023) [quote]I know enough of the Church that I could shake the faith in Protestantism he has held for so very long...but would that be the loving thing to do, right before his death?[/quote] Yes, absolutely. Protestantism is an error. It is a heresy. It is incorrect to think that because he affirms this, he can be saved. The Church teaches us that salvation comes only from the Church. (cf. CCC 846-848) [quote]Or should I trust in God's Grace and his current relationship with Christ?[/quote] Never stop trusting in God.... Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 in what ways is he "anti-Catholic"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 If he is knowledgable about Catholicism and its place in history, and denies it. I dont think it looks good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggamafu Posted September 8, 2004 Author Share Posted September 8, 2004 he is fundamentalist, king-james-only, reformed baptist. no, i don't think he knows catholicism's place in history. i'm pretty sure he either feels a) the baptists have existed, under one name or another, since the apostles and the church of Rome has always been under Satan OR b) the church of Rome was never the base, but rather just one of the apostolic churches that became evil very quickly. he thinks catholics worship mary, exhibit no joy whatsoever, and usually are more sinful/worldly than any other Christian. basically all the myths reside in him. he respects me though, and i think since i've talked with him, he thinks they at least have a SHOT at getting it "right" (alter-call style). he doesn't know i'm converting. i'm scared it would hurt or worry him too much to tell him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 well, it looks like all he knows about the Catholic Church are the myths about her. if he has not been exposed to Catholicism for what it REALLY is, then his ignorance may not be his fault. however, this would also depend on how receptive he was to any opportunities in his life to learn about what Catholicism is really all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggamafu Posted September 9, 2004 Author Share Posted September 9, 2004 so what advantage does being a baptized protestant have over being an un-baptized anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 [quote name='Ziggamafu' date='Sep 8 2004, 08:30 PM'] so what advantage does being a baptized protestant have over being an un-baptized anything else? [/quote] it depends on what that protestant (and his minister) believes that his baptism is achieving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 [quote name='Ziggamafu' date='Sep 8 2004, 06:30 PM'] so what advantage does being a baptized protestant have over being an un-baptized anything else? [/quote] The sacrament of baptism makes that man a son of God by grace and puts him into communion, albeit imperfect communion, with the Catholic Church. Moreover, the various graces given to him in his receptioin of the sacrament will hopefully impel him to full communion with the Catholic Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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