Lifeteen

[Paladin D]

Title says all, keep it clean and civilized.

[Dave]

I think it would be a truly excellent program if parishes refused to allow liturgical abuses in their Life Teen Masses.

[Paladin D]

I think it would be a truly excellent program if parishes refused to allow liturgical abuses in their Life Teen Masses.

I'm pretty much ignorant to Life Teen. Such as?

[jasJis]

Some see the Altar Gather as a Liturgical Abuse. That is when teens are asked to come and stand or kneel closer to the Altar. It can only be done with the permission of the Bishop who has authority for certain adaptations. Some allow, some don't, some require standing, some kneeling. All set limits to how close they can come to the altar. A co-celebrant can stand at the altar, others are farther away. That is up to the disgression of the Bishop. In our parish, the arrangement of the steps and where the altar servers stands, blocks off the area for the priest and co-celebrant priest. You might be closer to the altar, but not at the altar.

One of LifeTeen's hallmarks is teaching of the Real Presence. Eucharistic Adoration is very important. In our parish, every Retreat culminates in Eucharistic Adoration. Most 1/2 day retreats for Confirmation canditates includes Eucharistic Adoration. The have Eucharistic Adoration every month or so on a Wednesday or Sunday LifeTeen night.

I'm not completely comfortable with the Altar Gather and had written my Diocese's Director of Youth Minister and Director of Liturgy. Allowing it, without letting them be as close as the Altar Servers, Deacons, Priests, Co-Celebrants, and Eucharistic Ministers, is up to the Bishop. Given the emphasis of Eucharistic Adoration and beleif in the Real Prescence (and my few years of experience with the teens), the marked respect for the Real Prescence far outweighs my doubts about the Altar Gather.

I've heard (though I doubt it) that more 30% of Catholics don't believe in the Real Presence. I'd say less then 3% of Teens who have spent mor than a year associatated with LifeTeen do not believe in the Real Presence. But LifeTeen is more than that. It's a whole Catechesis program that encourages teens to learn and live orthodox Christianity by encompassing it in their entire life.

[vianney]

I think Life Teen helps kids who might otherwise never know Jesus as a Catholic come to know him in a more personal way. Sometimes we have to take ppl where they are at and for some kids it is with praise and worship and a deep understanding of the Eucharist which drawas them to the church. As long as things stay litrugically correct I am all for it.

[JP2Iloveyou]

jasjis, I think you are mistaken. I don't believe the Bishop has the authority to permit ANYONE to stand around the altar during the consecration other than the celebrant and concelebrant as well as others ministering at the altar (servers, acolytes, and deacons). Even EMEs are not permitted in the sanctuary before the celebrants receive Holy Communion. To have anyone else, I believe an indult is required from Rome. I don't believe Life Teen has one. A single bishop does not have the authority on his own to allow this to happen. I could be wrong, and I welcome input from others who have more knowledge on the matter than myself though. From what I've heard of Life Teen, it sounds like a good program for young people as long as it conforms to the GIRM.

In my humble opinion, I think that every Catholic should see proper liturgy in every regard. All priests should strive to eliminate even the smallest of liturgical abuses. That way, Catholics will know them when they see them. It's like the Secret Service. They are the law enforcement agency in the United States dealing with counterfeit money. They go their entire training without seeing a counterfeit bill. That way, they will know EXACTLY what a real bill looks like and will instantly be able to identify a counterfeit bill.

[cmotherofpirl]

A single Bishop cannot change the GIRM.

He can ask for a clarification or an indult.

But he has no Authority to alter the Mass.

[jasJis]

I did not say the Bishop changes the GIRM, though as head of the Liturgy for his Diocese, he has certain leeways for adaptations. The people within the Sanctuary are not "at" the Altar.

I am not mistaken. Put forth the same effort I did and contact your Diocese if you don't want to take my word for it.

Don't choke an a mote but swallow the camel instead.

[cmotherofpirl]

I did not say the Bishop changes the GIRM, though as head of the Liturgy for his Diocese, he has certain leeways for adaptations.  The people within the Sanctuary are not "at" the Altar. 

I am not mistaken.  Put forth the same effort I did and contact your Diocese if you don't want to take my word for it. 

Don't choke an a mote but swallow the camel instead.

Please post your diocese's documentation that offically says the Bishop can "adapt" te GIRM for lifeteen.

[vianney]

Look there is no need to get nasty. If I remeber reading correctly the Bishop CAN allow some alterations ie standing AROUND NOT AT the altar but I could be mistaken.

[Anna]

In my humble opinion, I think that every Catholic should see proper liturgy in every regard.  All priests should strive to eliminate even the smallest of liturgical abuses.  That way, Catholics will know them when they see them.  It's like the Secret Service.  They are the law enforcement agency in the United States dealing with counterfeit money.  They go their entire training without seeing a counterfeit bill.  That way, they will know EXACTLY what a real bill looks like and will instantly be able to identify a counterfeit bill.

If everyone honored the same rules the same way, I also think there would be a lot less hurt feelings. (Not that hurt feelings are the major problem here, but...) So many people get upset when they hear a fellow Catholic complain about liturgical abuses in LifeTeen Masses. They seem to think that as long as one person gets a bit deeper into the Faith, it's all good.

If we all observed and participated in the Holy Sacrifice according to the rubrics, there would be no cause for complaining that certain movements, having their own Masses, are actually (or possibly) abusing the liturgy....

Personally, I'd like to attend one of those Masses Donna attends! No, I'd like to attend lots of those Masses! Ah, well, remember me, Donna, at Mass, please!

Pax Christi. <><

[vianney]

What are you talking about Anna, No where on this post did Donna say anything about masses. Please stick to this post so that the ppl who are actually interesting in debating differences in views and opinions can follow what is being said.

[jasJis]

from Introduction to the GIRMAccordingly, a part of the new Missal directs the prayers of the Church in a more open way to the needs of our times, which is above all true of the Ritual Masses and the Masses for Various Needs, in which tradition and new elements are appropriately harmonized. Thus, while many expressions, drawn from the Church's most ancient tradition and familiar through the many editions of the Roman Missal, have remained unchanged, many other expressions have been accommodated to today's needs and circumstances. Still others, such as the prayers for the Church, the laity, the sanctification of human work, the community of all peoples, and certain needs proper to our era, have been newly composed, drawing on the thoughts and often the very phrasing of the recent documents of the Council.

Moreover, on account of the same attitude toward the new state of the present world, it seemed that in the use of texts from the most ancient tradition, so revered a treasure would in no way be harmed if some phrases were changed so that the style of language would be more in accord with the language of modern theology and would truly reflect the current discipline of the Church. Thus, not a few expressions bearing on the evaluation and use of the earthly goods of the earth have been changed, as have also not a few allusions to a certain form of outward penance belonging to past ages of the Church.

Description of the Altar in the GIRM

73. At the beginning of the Liturgy of the Eucharist the gifts, which will become Christ's Body and Blood, are brought to the altar.

First, the altar, the Lord's table, which is the center of the whole Liturgy of the Eucharist,70 is prepared by placing on it the corporal, purificator, Missal, and chalice (unless the chalice is prepared at the credence table).

Adaptations Within the Competence of Bishops and Bishops' Conferences

386. The renewal of the Roman Missal, carried out in our time in accordance with the decrees of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, has taken great care that all the faithful may engage in the celebration of the Eucharist with that full, conscious, and active participation that is required by the nature of the Liturgy itself and to which the faithful, in virtue of their status as such, have a right and duty.147

In order, however, to enable such a celebration to correspond all the more fully to the norms and the spirit of the Sacred Liturgy, certain further adaptations are set forth in this Instruction and in the Order of Mass and entrusted to the judgment either of the Diocesan Bishop or of the Bishops' Conferences.

I don't have the e-mail from the Diocese. Regardless, if you feel I am speaking a mis-truth about it, then do as I suggested, and contact your own Diocese. I have yet seen anyone post an excerpt from the GIRM that says people are not allowed in the Sactuary and that being in the Sancturary is the same as being AT the Altar like the Celebrant priest. I've read the GIRM and clearly, some things are left to the regulatory authority of the Bishops. I have also talked to priests and lay from other LifeTeen orgnizations in other Diocese and gotten the same answer.

My challenge is for you to provide something from a Bishop or Diocese that says this practice is not within the compentence of the Bishop. We may agree or disagree with the Bishop, but his opinion prevails by the authority of the office he holds.

[cmotherofpirl]

Jas I know you are arn't lying, and I never implied that.

I just figured there was something somewhere in writing from your bishop stating he was "adapting" the GIRM.

[jasJis]

Adaptations Within the Competence of Bishops and Bishops' Conferences

386. The renewal of the Roman Missal, carried out in our time in accordance with the decrees of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, has taken great care that all the faithful may engage in the celebration of the Eucharist with that full, conscious, and active participation that is required by the nature of the Liturgy itself and to which the faithful, in virtue of their status as such, have a right and duty.147

In order, however, to enable such a celebration to correspond all the more fully to the norms and the spirit of the Sacred Liturgy, certain further adaptations are set forth in this Instruction and in the Order of Mass and entrusted to the judgment either of the Diocesan Bishop or of the Bishops' Conferences.

There are other things in the GIRM that specifically leave it up to the disgression of the Bishop.

Also note that the Catholic Church usually allows exceptions to the rule 'for good reason'. That is usually left up to the Bishop. If the Bishop can allow the Eucharist to be give to non-Catholics, I think it seems likely he can also allow teens in the Sancturary, which, despite the unfortunate name of 'Altar Gather', is not allowing them, or EM's to come TO the Altar itself.

On one hand, it might cause confusion and seem a violation of the GIRM, on the other hand, it isn't when allowed by the Bishop. More than 1 Bishop has allowed this, more than 1 Bishop has said no. Our Bishop is moderate to conservative. Permission was granted based on the continual catechisis that is provided by priest and others.