Ridley Scott's New Crusades Film Panders To Osama

[MorphRC]

[quote name='BurkeFan' date='Sep 10 2004, 04:31 PM'] Hopefully, I think a prof at my school who is probably, quite seriously, the world's leading expert on the Crusades, will be setting up a website to counteract this film. Don't know if he's going to go through with it though... hopefully he will. [/quote]
That would be awesome!

[Socrates]

[quote]This movie if done properly will be cool, but if done poorly, it will smell of elderberries, thats an obvious lol. [/quote]

Ridley Scott is generally, at least in my opinion, a technically skillful director ([i]Blade Runner, Gladiator, Black Hawk Down[/i]), which will unfortunately make the falsehoods of the story more effective (and more watched).

Of course, I wouldn't go out protesting this flick (we know how effective that was with the [i]Passion of the Christ[/i] - on the enemy's side that is!)
(Of course, I'm sure a lot of people will praise this movie who vehemently condemned the [i]Passion[/i] for being "historically inaccurate" -e.g. not complying with liberal revisionist "Bible scholars.")

Islamic fundamentalists will probably not like it either, as a "brotherhood of Muslims, Christians, and Jews" isn't really their agenda! The only thing this will do is muddy up history in the minds of the general public, and reinforce the old anti-Catholic myths about the crusades.

Edited September 10, 2004 by Socrates

[White Knight]

When I get up there into the movie buisness I'll do my absolute best to make a decent high budget film based on the True Fact of the Crusades.......



Man I cannot wait until I get into the film buisness I'm going to spawn up some much..... thats Catholic & Non Catholic Based entertianment, (BRING BACK THE OLD STYLE of Filmmaking, were cussing was hardly used, no nudity, volience was mild/ toned down, and such) I wanna make films that dont revolve around dirty jokes (sexual humor) I wanna bring back the CLASSICIAL ELEMENTS that made me fall in love with Action Films. and movies in general.

[Oik]

Socrates, I agree with most of your post. I have a few reservations...
[quote]Islam was founded and grew by the sword. Mohammed was a miltary genius who used military conquest to build a great empire. The Islamic religion was spread by military conquest. Islam was always about violence (convert or die!)[/quote] This is incorrect. Mohammed started Islam as a religion of submission to God. What grew out of this was turmoil, but Islam hasn't been about violence from the beginning.
[quote]Muslims see it as their duty to wage war on infidels and use violent conquest to bring them under Islamic rule. Christians who survive the conquest and did not convert were forced to live as slaves. Islam was never about tolerance![/quote] Let's find a more ecumenical way to say this...how about this:
Part of the Islamic worldview is that the world is divided into tow parts, Dar Al-Islam(house of Islam) and Dar Al-Harb(house of war). The dar Al-Harb is at war with God, as Islam is viewed as the submission to God, hence not submitting to God results in turmoil, conflict, and war (just look at the history of humanity). If I had this mind set, my obligtion would be to God and His Truth. The only thing I am obligated to do is to sumbit to His Will, even if that means defending myself.
[quote]After Mohammed's death Mohammedanism aspired to become a world power and a universal religion. The weakness of the Byzantine Empire, the unfortunate rivalry between the Greek and Latin Churches, the schisms of Nestorius and Eutyches, the failing power of the Sassanian dynasty of Persia, the lax moral code of the new religion, the power of the sword and of fanaticism, the hope of plunder and the love of conquest — all these factors combined with the genius of the caliphs, the successors of Mohammed, to effect the conquest, in considerably less than a century, of Palestine, Syria, Mesopotamia, Egypt, North Africa, and the South of Spain. The Moslems even crossed the Pyrenees, threatening to stable their horses in St. Peter's at Rome, but were at last defeated by Charles Martel at Tours, in 732, just one hundred years from the death of Mohammed. This defeat arrested their western conquests and saved Europe.[/quote] Its all [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10424a.htm"]here[/url].

[MorphRC]

Islam was spread by conquest, sure wasnt done through "evangelizism".

[MorphRC]

Dp.

Edited September 11, 2004 by MorphRC

[White Knight]

Well, I'm sick and tired of people thinking the Christians were the bad guys in the 8 crusades, it really ticks me off.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Oik' date='Sep 10 2004, 08:48 PM'] This is incorrect. Mohammed started Islam as a religion of submission to God. What grew out of this was turmoil, but Islam hasn't been about violence from the beginning.
[/quote]
It is historical fact that Mohammed himself led troops in battle against his enemies when he fought against Mecca and conquered it. His successors, with the military leadership of Khalid ibn al-Walid began defeated the Persians and the Byzantines. Submission to Allah was the Islam policy, which meant submit and convert to Islam or face battle. Survivors of battle were to be spared if they converted to Islam. War and forced conversions were methods of spreading Islam from the beginning. There was never a "peacable" period of Islam.

[Socrates]

Note, I'm not claiming that Muslims were or are insincere in their beliefs. I'm saying that historically they have always used war and violence to spread their religion. Modern, pc ideas of religious tolerance and pacifism are not part of the traditional Muslim mentality. The movie (from what I've read) gets this wrong.

[MorphRC]

Learn about Umar. He did a good job of conquesting most of Arabia and parts of the Byzantine Empire through force.

Umar, or Usumah

[White Knight]

If I'm correct I think The Islamic Religion formed after Christianity did.

[MorphRC]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Sep 12 2004, 03:57 PM'] If I'm correct I think The Islamic Religion formed after Christianity did. [/quote]
Yes. 613AD. First "revelation" of Muhammad.

Muslims believe that Islam has existed since Adam & Eve, Adam being the first prophet.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Sep 9 2004, 08:21 PM'] I'm probably asking for a death threat here, but Islam (at least in its traditional form) was never a "religion of peace"!

Islam was founded and grew by the sword. Mohammed was a miltary genius who used military conquest to build a great empire. The Islamic religion was spread by military conquest. Islam was always about violence (convert or die!) By the 700s they had conquered much of the Middle East and (formerly Christian) North Africa and most of Spain and they had advanced as far as France, and perhaps would have conquered all Christian Europe, had Charles the Hammer not defeated them and caused them to withdraw. The history of medieval Spain is a gradual Christian reconquest from the Muslim invaders that took almost a thousand years.

The crusades were fought as a Christian defensive war to reclaim the Christian Holy Land from the Muslim Turks who had invaded it (by violent force)! Yeah, the Crusades were brutal, but the Muslims with their policy of violent conquest started it! All this revisionist stuff about the violent imperialistic Christians waging war on the peaceful, innocent enlightened Muslims is a load of horse dung! Muslims see it as their duty to wage war on infidels and use violent conquest to bring them under Islamic rule. Christians who survive the conquest and did not convert were forced to live as slaves. Islam was never about tolerance!

This garbage reminds me of Bill Clinton after 9-11 blaming it on the crusades.
If this movie is what they say it is, shame on Ridley Scott for making it! We should not lie about history to "appease" our enemies! This political correctness in hollywood is absurd. We are at war with Islamic terrorism, therefore no movies can be made showing Islamic terrorsists as bad guys (like they changed the villians in that Tom Clancy story from Arab terrorists to politically correct neo-Nazi villians (pc as villians that is)) Contrast this with WWII days!!

To this day, a brutal Muslim slave trade with Christian slaves prospers in African countries. Today's terrorist acts are not an abberation, but a continuing of Islam's age-old Fatwa with modern means. And yet the pc "multi-cultural" elites in America and Europe today pretend Muslims can do wrong (unless of course forced into it by Evil Christians!) We need truth, not pc lies by self-loathing westerners! [/quote]
well, I have been wanting to say that for a while but thought I would get in trouble...good job.

[LSW]

Boy, first a movie about "The Davinci Code" and now this! Its always an uphill battle for us isn't it?

[Paladin D]

Oh my gosh, and they complained about [b]The Passion of the Christ[/b]?

I guess we can look on the bright side, at least many academic scholars and historians are on our side.