Dave Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 The only evidence I have to give to you that would even come close to satisying your needs is me. If you saw me you may be able to say (I hope) the Spirit is working through him. The only ones who can learn from Personal Interpretation compared to Inspiration is the person themselves and they will learn it the hard way. The Holy Spirit has never failed for me, whenever I have felt that i was interpreting wrong I have know it from the inside consulted a pastor and fasted in prayer. The Holy Spirit is meant to be our guide, personally... he is also a very hazy area. I think this is why many find it hard 2 explain him on a personal level for the 2nd person. It is an experience thing... The Holy Spirit being real to me and building my faith is my only evidence... You still haven't explained why you feel the Holy Spirit can lead people to totally different conclusions. I mean, when you've felt the Holy Spirit was guiding you to consult your pastor, how do you know your pastor wasn't wrong and was instead acting on his feelings, opinions, or biases? And hey, did you used to be Catholic? I thought I'd read something you wrote that implied that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 ok don't like your approach but hey... what can i say? So you wouldn't warn someone who was sinning and didn't care? Not a very loving thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper4DaHolyG Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 anything my pastor says will always be prayerfully considered. I am sure you would do this even if the Pope annointed with you with blessings, you would still pray on the issue! I would express my views, but I would not be quick to show them their wrongs. I would feel hypocritical as a fellow sinner (I don't rank sins, I count them all the same. The ranking process is in my personal morals)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper4DaHolyG Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 and yes I was once Catholic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper4DaHolyG Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 I don't believe in the Holy Spirit leading us to completely different conclusions that is wrong. If it seems that way, it is human error somewhere somehow one of our approaches are wrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 The only evidence I have to give to you that would even come close to satisying your needs is me. If you saw me you may be able to say (I hope) the Spirit is working through him. The only ones who can learn from Personal Interpretation compared to Inspiration is the person themselves and they will learn it the hard way. The Holy Spirit has never failed for me, whenever I have felt that i was interpreting wrong I have know it from the inside consulted a pastor and fasted in prayer. The Holy Spirit is meant to be our guide, personally... he is also a very hazy area. I think this is why many find it hard 2 explain him on a personal level for the 2nd person. It is an experience thing... The Holy Spirit being real to me and building my faith is my only evidence... an example: If you let a drop of water into a barrel filled with ashes, and look for its footprint, you will not see any. The water drop immediately sinks to the bottom. On the top you will see only dry ashes again. But if you keep pouring water into it, eventually it will wet the entire ash and the wetness will show up on the surface. Then you can say that the barrel is filled with water. Similarly, when the water of Holy Spirit is kept pouring on into the life of a new believer, it eventually will ‘wet’ that person’s entire personality and the ‘wetness’ shows up on the surface, so to speak, to eventually lead to a personal and greater understanding of the Power in God's Word. Dude, this is the most frustrating thing. Am I led by the Spirit or are you!? We believe 2, two, Different things! Is the Spirit guiding us BOTH? Give me a break, trooper, you're not the only one that "feels" the Spirit. You're not the only one who's prayed and fasted and been "filled" with the Spirit! Yet, you have a DIFFERENT interpritation of Scripture! Do you seriously think that Christ would allow us to have this kind of confusion about who is lead by the spirit? Is it a personal thing, I "feel" it so it must be real? So, then you are saying, a gay person (for example) who believes that sodomy is okay isn't really lead by the Spirit? His "feeling" MUST be differen than yours because yours is "right" (to you). That's friggin silly! He "feels" the exact same as you! He "knows" that it is from the Spirit! Just like you! Oh, but he's wrong because you've fasted, etc. I'm sure he's fasted to! Now who's right! Give me a break. There has to be objective evidence! Christ wouldn't do that. If you can't answer this question without "oh it's just a feeling", then I give up. I shake the dust off my feet. There is no more to be said, because I have fasted, I have prayed, and I "feel" the Spirit too! But he is telling me something different. My objective proof to you is this: The Church that Christ founded TEACHES exactly what the Spirit has led me to believe. The visible Catholic Church has the same interpritation that I have! That's objective. Give me a scripture and I will quote the Church's teachings for you to prove that the Holy Spirit has lead me to the same conclusion it has led the Church. But on the other hand, you, you just have a "feeling" with no documentation, no Church, no OBJECTIVE evidence to substantiate it. You, the Scripture, and your "feelings". A one man "body". No two Protestants can agree EXACTLY on the same interpritation of Scripture in it's entirety. What "body" is that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper4DaHolyG Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 Brother Jake, in what transalation are we differing? If you are a Christian, then the Spirit is guiding us both... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[jas] Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 That's friggin silly! He "feels" the exact same as you! He "knows" that it is from the Spirit! Just like you! Oh, but he's wrong because you've fasted, etc. I'm sure he's fasted to! Now who's right! How about the one who's not completely going against scripture? That's what it's there for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I don't believe in the Holy Spirit leading us to completely different conclusions that is wrong. If it seems that way, it is human error somewhere somehow one of our approaches are wrong.... Exactly my friend. BINGO. Ah - releif from my agony! You GOT it. Now - when one of your "approaches" are wrong, how do you know which "approach" was right? -Assuming both of you have fasted, prayed, "feel the spirit", and are firm in your interpritation.- Such is the case with you, me, and the Body and Blood of Jesus. (this is just ONE example). Who's right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper4DaHolyG Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 All the churches who come under the umbrella of the ACC agree on Scriptual Basic Concepts... There is a body there.... I think you have this mind set that we are lost sheep from the Catholic Body? If you do get rid of it, or if your going to give me this "Well Its the truth" then we are pack, not single troopers....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[jas] Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 And what makes your church right and everyone else wrong? Before you give me the usual "on this rock I will build my church" etc scriptures, what makes your interpretation of those right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 ,Sep 25 2003, 08:32 AM] How about the one who's not completely going against scripture? That's what it's there for. Jas, that's just it! To him it isnt' against Scripture. There is a gay Christian church by my house. They're BIBLE BELIEVERS! No kidding. I don't know how they do it, but they do it. You show them scripture, and they'll show you scripture. To you and me it's obvious, but to them... Same thing with John 6. I can show you scripture, you'll show me scripture. For the life of me, I can't imagine Scripture being more clear about it. It is SOOOO obvious that Christ is being literal. But for you, I'm sure, it is likewise "obvious" that he's being figurative. See what I mean? There has to be a visible Athoritative Church, such as described in Scripture, to interpret Scripture correctly and therefor present to us, the faithful, the Teachings that Christ himself WANTED us to follow! Here is where "sola Scriptura", Protestant foundation, falls flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 All the churches who come under the umbrella of the ACC agree on Scriptual Basic Concepts... There is a body there.... I think you have this mind set that we are lost sheep from the Catholic Body? If you do get rid of it, or if your going to give me this "Well Its the truth" then we are pack, not single troopers....! What's the ACC? And, yes, unfortunatly, it is a fact that ALL protestants are lost sheep from the Catholic Body. Some have strayed farther than others - that's irrelivant. We are supposed to be a pack, not single troopers. Show me two protestant churches that teach the exact same thing, and I will give up. And I don't mean "basics", because according to different churches EVEN basics are different! LOL! "Basic" for all I know is that there once lived a man named Jesus. That is VERY basic, and you probably will find at least two protestant churches that believe that. I want to see two protestant churches that believe the EXACT same thing on faith and morals. Protestant theology at it's root is "every man for himself". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper4DaHolyG Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 i am going 2 be praying with you Jake coz you and me know they are wrong... it sux when they come up with unclear scripture.... coz that was one of things i couldn't take when i first got here.... nothing! nothing in the bible clearly substantiated to me that the Catholic Church is what Jesus left, that Mary and the saints should be prayed through and that there were popes in the bible.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper4DaHolyG Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 What's the ACC? And, yes, unfortunatly, it is a fact that ALL protestants are lost sheep from the Catholic Body. Some have strayed farther than others - that's irrelivant. We are supposed to be a pack, not single troopers. Show me two protestant churches that teach the exact same thing, and I will give up. And I don't mean "basics", because according to different churches EVEN basics are different! LOL! "Basic" for all I know is that there once lived a man named Jesus. That is VERY basic, and you probably will find at least two protestant churches that believe that. I want to see two protestant churches that believe the EXACT same thing on faith and morals. Protestant theology at it's root is "every man for himself". every man to his own church don't teach me about mine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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