Don John of Austria Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 No answer to me at all ithicus, I don't know wether to be insulted or just satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Thomist soteriology does not deny free will. In unconditionally electing people to salvation, God simply passes over the "unelect". Therefore, they beaver dam *themselves* by their own free choice. As far as the "I" goes in my TULIP model, "intrinsically efficacious grace" God gives to all sufficient grace, by the merits of Jesus Christ on the cross, to come to Him, but only for the elect will it be made efficacious, i.e. only the Elect will act on that sufficient grace. Hence, the atonement is limited in the sense that it will only be efficacious for the Elect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Predestination trounces all over the belief in free-will. What is the point of free will with predestination? What is the point of your life if you are condemned to hell before you were born? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Is it wrong to say that EVERYONE is pre-destined for salvation. Not like, pre-determined, but rather that God has offered that Destiny to everyone and it is open to everyone and we only have to cooperate with our Destiny to attain it . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Destiny is defined as: A predetermined course of events considered as something beyond human power or control. How can you cooperate with something that is going to happen anyways? This belief in predestination some of you defend is considered a heresy by Church. It was one of John Calvin's doctrines and is a doctrine of Jansenism. Jesus tells us we must work to achieve the Kingdom of Heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I am with you thedude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 2, 2003 Author Share Posted October 2, 2003 i think the debate died we all just stated our viewpoints and ICTHUS was ganged up on cause we were all like on the same side. i declare myself the winner of the debate! B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 I second your declaration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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