God What Does He Want?

[Livin_the_MASS]

Simple isn't it?

[HartfordWhalers]

Yes, we are supposed to be simple.

[Aloysius]

[color=red]"Behold I send you as sheep in the midst of wolves. Be ye therefore wise as serpents and simple as doves."[/color] [i]The Words of Our Lord Jesus Christ in The Holy Gospel According to St. Matthew Chapter X, Verse XVI[/i]

[Livin_the_MASS]

Wise and complex are different in what I'm saying. Christ said be wise not make your wisdom complex.

Example

Does a baby have a soul at conception?
simple question
simple answer

YES

It takes some knowledge to know this,but more common sense than anything.

Is sex before marraige a sin?

YES

Simple with wisdom

St. Paul wrote

[b][u]1 Cor. Chapter 3 vs 1-2[/u]

"My brothers, I could not talk to you as spiritual people, but as fleshly people, as infants in Christ. I fed you milk, not solid food, because you were unable to take it. Indeed, you are still not able, even now."[/b]

If we make our wisdom complex some will not understand. Milk, simple, easy to drink.

Pax
Jason

[HartfordWhalers]

Jason, I think he was referring to what Christ said at the end: "simple as doves". He was not saying, I don't think, that we are supposed to be complex.

However, in light of your recent post, I don't know if such an answer would be correct for the type of question you are asking. Yes, we are supposed to be simple, and the [i]basic[/i] truths of the faith are simple enough to be explained to and believed by children, but not all the truths of the Church are as simple, such as infusion of the soul. Not only is it not defined by the Church, the subject is not complex. That does mean we are not complex. It simply means the subject is complex, and we need to use logic to come to the conlcusion.

If you want a simple question and simple answer, here is one:

Is there salvation outside the Church?

No.

That's much more simple than needing pages upon pages of books to explain how "outside the Church NO salvation" really means "outside the Church SOME [or MUCH] salvation".

Edited September 7, 2004 by HartfordWhalers

[Aloysius]

yeah, but what about someone who doesn't believe that? do we not need to employ proofs? logical arguments? being able to logically back up your position is not wrong. God gave us brains for a reason.

if someone says "i don't think life begins at conception because of this, this, this, and this" and you simply say "life does begin at conception" then the person believes he has won the argument and will continue to think it does not begin at conception.

would you call St. Thomas Aquinas too complex? if so, was it wrong for him to employ his logic to explain in the deepest way possible for a finite human mind the nuances of the realities of Faith and morality?

i don't understand what you mean when you say we should be simple. yes, we should have child-like faith to be trusting of God and His Church. but children inevitably ask questions, so too are we to ask questions and strive to get our minds around truths of the faith that will lead us deeper into the truth.

simple does not mean abandon reason.

[carrdero]

What does GOD want us to be.....OURSELF

[Aloysius]

ACTUALLY: God wants us to deny ourselves, pick up our Cross, and follow Him,

"Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."[i]The Words of Our Lord Jesus Christ in The Holy Gospel According to Saint Matthew, Chapter XVI, Verse XXIV[/i]

[carrdero]

Aloysius writes: "Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

And do what? And go where? Actually this is a scripture that is commonly/obviously taken to literally.

[jasJis]

God wants us to be all He created us to be. God is more complex than we can comprehend. At the same time, He communicates to us in terms simple enough for us to understand. It is a sin of human pride to believe God is simple enough for us to comprehend fully, or that we are intelligent enough to comprehend the full complexities of God. We comprehend all we need to comprehend. In Sirach, we are warned to only dwell on the mysteries we personally are graced to fathom and understand and not to worry about what's beyond our comprehension. Simply, God is perfectly merciful, all loving, and perfectly just with unlimited power and knowledge. Simply, God comprehends and has a plan beyond what we can possibly know, but He does show us, in simple terms, an inkling of what His will is. He shows us all enough. If we are graced with mighty intellect and discernment, it is our duty to contemplate the theological nuances of God's plan. History is not replete with entire populations of Church Fathers. God chooses a few as HIs delegates to be graced. This is what Paul means when he describes the Body of Christ, each of us having our part or role. We are not all teachers unto our selves. We are not all healers unto ourselves. Only in the corporate sense do we receive what we are lacking and share what we are graced abundantly with. This is the crux of the entire Protestant revolt. They revolted against the Body of Christ, deeming what graces they were given are insufficient to overcome the damage of human sin, human frailty, and human weakness. They think God must be simple enough that they can lead themselves. Really, God speaks to us simply enough that we can help each other (with the Graces Jesus merited for us) to Him. This is the reason for Sacraments that don't require our full understanding. This is the reason we Baptize babies. God gives us grace beyond our understanding. We don't earn grace by force of intellect. We are given sufficient grace to start off with, and then we participate with grace and grow as people and grow in grace. For example, consider Jesus' parable about the different amount of talents given to various servants.

[Guest JeffCR07]

[quote]If you want a simple question and simple answer, here is one:

Is there salvation outside the Church?

No.

That's much more simple than needing pages upon pages of books to explain how "outside the Church NO salvation" really means "outside the Church SOME [or MUCH] salvation".[/quote]


*sigh* here we go again...


Hartford, you must understand that you are not the authority on how one is to interpret Most Holy Tradition, and the writings of the Magisterium. In truth, I agree, it is very simple.

Trent was very clear: There is no Salvation Outside the Church.

But you are not looking at who this was being addressed to. The whole Council was set in the context of Jews and others who acknowledged the logic and truth of the Church, but still remained stubborn in their ways and refused to convert.

I will pray that your heart be humbled before the Spotless Bride of Christ, and that you will humbly submit both mind and will to the teachings of the Shepherds of the Church.

- Your Brother In Christ, Jeff

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Sep 8 2004, 09:17 AM'] God wants us to be all He created us to be. God is more complex than we can comprehend. At the same time, He communicates to us in terms simple enough for us to understand. It is a sin of human pride to believe God is simple enough for us to comprehend fully, or that we are intelligent enough to comprehend the full complexities of God. We comprehend all we need to comprehend. In Sirach, we are warned to only dwell on the mysteries we personally are graced to fathom and understand and not to worry about what's beyond our comprehension. Simply, God is perfectly merciful, all loving, and perfectly just with unlimited power and knowledge. Simply, God comprehends and has a plan beyond what we can possibly know, but He does show us, in simple terms, an inkling of what His will is. He shows us all enough. If we are graced with mighty intellect and discernment, it is our duty to contemplate the theological nuances of God's plan. History is not replete with entire populations of Church Fathers. God chooses a few as HIs delegates to be graced. This is what Paul means when he describes the Body of Christ, each of us having our part or role. We are not all teachers unto our selves. We are not all healers unto ourselves. Only in the corporate sense do we receive what we are lacking and share what we are graced abundantly with. This is the crux of the entire Protestant revolt. They revolted against the Body of Christ, deeming what graces they were given are insufficient to overcome the damage of human sin, human frailty, and human weakness. They think God must be simple enough that they can lead themselves. Really, God speaks to us simply enough that we can help each other (with the Graces Jesus merited for us) to Him. This is the reason for Sacraments that don't require our full understanding. This is the reason we Baptize babies. God gives us grace beyond our understanding. We don't earn grace by force of intellect. We are given sufficient grace to start off with, and then we participate with grace and grow as people and grow in grace. For example, consider Jesus' parable about the different amount of talents given to various servants. [/quote]
That's more like, good answer

[XIX]

The answer is simple (ha...ha...)

You live in faith. Which means to live simply, but realizing that some things are too complex for us to handle. Offer it up to God.

[MorphRC]

If I knew this. I wouldnt be going through hell, and others wouldnt either.

[Aloysius]

what do you mean morph?