Cam42 Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 [quote]Cam42, would this then mean that most congregations are in error by standing instead of kneeling?[/quote] Yes....that is the short answer. The longer answer is much more in depth. One cannot act totally out of line with the parish simply because he feels like it. So, for the sake of argument, I attend Mass at your parish. It is the "custom" of your parish to stand for the Canon. The parish is in error. That is clear. However, to draw attention to myself by kneeling could cause scandal or it could cause doubt in the mind of the faithful. That must be avoided. What I would be obliged to do is conform to the parish, but approach Father after Mass, in private and ask him why he does not follow the GIRM. (BTW, there is no answer he can give that is right, except to say that he will conform) If he is obstinant then I would be obliged to contact the local ordinary (bishop) and inform him that one of his parishes is not in conformity with the GIRM and the Church. (A disclaimer: This is to be done in the private forum, by correspondance or in person. It is never to be done in any type of public forum, as we are not to show outward disobedience toward the local ordinary. A question of this nature could be construed as such or lead him to teach in error.....which he should not do. This part of the thread however, is best served in another forum, as it could lead to debate.) Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 thanks Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 isn't kneeling a universal norm? wouldn't that supercede the customs of the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellenita Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 We kneel in the UK.....or at least in every Mass I've been to in the UK! They kneel in Portugal too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Kneeling for the consecration is the universal norm. However, kneeling for the Entire Eucharistic Prayer is particular to certain places in the world. The United States is one of these places. Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 The GIRM says in the US we kneel, so we kneel. Why do you care if other people are doing it wrong? If they ask you why you kneel, you can explain that is what you are [u]supposed [/u]to be doing. Ask the priest why he is doing it wrong, then if he can't help you, ask your bishop. Obedience is to the Church, not to a particular priest who is in error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Odd thing is, even though our parish doesn't kneel... they bow after the consencration of the bread and wine (one bow for each). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 That is an option when it is not possible to kneel. Why is it impossible to kneel in your parish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKenzie Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 At my college, the Abbot told us not to kneel except from the "May the Holy Spirit come upon these gifts... do this in memory of me" (after consecration of wine to Blood). This is the only time we are to kneel. Is this improper? Since the Abbot, who is the "local ordinary" said to do this, are we to obey him or what? This has been bothering me for quite some time, so any clarification would be greatly appreciated. Thanks; God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 p0lar? Cam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HartfordWhalers Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 [quote name='McKenzie' date='Sep 9 2004, 10:08 PM'] At my college, the Abbot told us not to kneel except from the "May the Holy Spirit come upon these gifts... do this in memory of me" (after consecration of wine to Blood). This is the only time we are to kneel. Is this improper? Since the Abbot, who is the "local ordinary" said to do this, are we to obey him or what? This has been bothering me for quite some time, so any clarification would be greatly appreciated. Thanks; God bless. [/quote] No, that is not what the GIRM says. You should not listen to that. You should bring up what the GIRM says, and ask him why he is doing it incorrectly. I think cmom or polar may know where exactly this is in the GIRM--I'm not up on the "latest" in Liturgy, since I follow the Traditional Latin Mass, not the Novus Ordo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted September 18, 2004 Share Posted September 18, 2004 [quote]You should bring up what the GIRM says, and ask him why he is doing it incorrectly.[/quote] I already addressed that. [quote]I think cmom or polar may know where exactly this is in the GIRM--I'm not up on the "latest" in Liturgy...[/quote] I already addressed that too....GIRM no.43. [quote]I follow the Traditional Latin Mass, not the Novus Ordo.[/quote] God Bless you. I follow both and love the liturgical diversity of both. I daresay that I am one of a handful of people left in the world that can emcee both a Pontifical High Mass (Trid.) [b]AND[/b] and Pontifical Mass (Missa Normativa). This may be for another thread, but I am not a fan of calling the Mass of 1975 the Novus Ordo. I think that calling it the Missa Normativa is much more respectful and correct. While I understand that the [i]Trids[/i] make a distinction, there really isn't one.....perhaps we can get this going on another thread. Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 18, 2004 Share Posted September 18, 2004 I think [i]Ordo Missae[/i] is correct as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Actually, the [i]Ordo Missae[/i] is a separate thing. It is the order of Mass. It is the booklet that contains the reading lists and the index of saints. [b]Missa Normativa[/b] is more correct, because it is the Noramtive Mass. The Mass of 1975 or the Mass that we have today is most properly called Missa Normativa. God Bless, Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 "Novus Ordo" is still correct right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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