Holding Hands During The Our Father

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Sep 6 2004, 02:15 PM'] I don't like holding hands during the Our Father, and I usually avoid it.

If I bow my head and close my eyes like I'm really concentrating, most people don't try to hold my hand.

I will hold someone's hand if they are one of those "hand thrusters" or "hand grabbers" because I don't want to be rude. Usually in mass I sit by myself so it doesn't usually come up.

I don't think they do the hand holding in Europe. And I don't remember them doing it in Brazil. I think it's a very American Evangelical influenced thing.

I don't really care for shaking hands in mass, either. It's not that I don't want to know people in my parish, or that I don't care about them. But I think it's a forced social gesture, and there are better ways to socialize and get to know your parish: by getting involved.

What's more I really hate it when the Catholic college students from our local campus ministry turn it into "inside joke and social hour."

Last week I turned around to shake some of these students hands when they were at our parish (school hasn't started here yet) they spent at least 10-15 seconds laughing and joking, while I was waiting for them to notice that I was offering my hand. Finally I got fed up and turned around and they didn't notice me until I was already turning around and it was too late. [/quote]
I see no problem with shaking hands during the sign of peace, I like it actually. I (and many others) do not like the holding of hands during the Our Father.

[Apollo]

Is it wrong to hold the hand of your wife during the Lord's Prayer?

Just wondering...

[Brother Adam]

Wife, child, mother, or grandpa, it's still the same, they have asked us not to. Again - it puts the focus on community instead of God.

[P3chrmd]

[quote]Wife, child, mother, or grandpa, it's still the same, they have asked us not to. Again - it puts the focus on community instead of God. [/quote]

I don't see it that way...but we can just agree to disagree about that one...I am obviously like the ONLY one on Phatmass who has no problem with holding hands during the Our Father...soooo...im going to keep my mouth shut! LOL

[Sinner]

Not in the rubrics........ My Parish is a buncha HH's ...handholders. I come up from my knees with my eyes closed and my hands foldes for prayer.... gets me out of it 90% of the time. Our Priest and Servers do not do it. I will do it when virtually forced. I

[Thomas Michael]

[quote name='musturde' date='Sep 6 2004, 02:24 PM'] I heard from a priest that the Bishops of U.S told Rome that they couldnt take out a tradition passed on soo long in U.S. The priest said that he doesnt want us to do it but he's not gunna break our hands apart if he sees us doing it. [/quote]
Hmph. No wonder liturgical reform takes such a painfully long time in the U.S. It's like the bishops are saying the American Church is addicted to hand-holding and they can't stop themselves. Why don't you just start your own American Rite and get it over with, that's what y'all really want, isn't it.... :angry:

[WildCatRupe]

I am curious as to the informatio y'all are working from, especially when you term the holding of hands as a "liturgical abuse." I just read throught the General Instruction of the Roman Missal. There was no statement one way or the other regarding the validity of holding hands. The one thing I would like to mention is this: unity in posture. The GIRM says that maintaining a common posture is "a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the Sacred Liturgy: it both expresses and fosters the intention and spiritual attitude of the participants." This statement most directly appliest to posture during the Consecration, but is applicable at other times as well. We are a community together in prayer, and physical signs of that unity seem to be encouraged in the GIRM. The way I view the holding of hands is as a sign that these people to whom I am connected are lifting me and my petitions up to our Lord, just as I am lifting up them and their petitions. If someone has an official, promulagated document that clearly shows that we are not supposed to be holding hands, please, post it.

Timmy

[Norseman82]

How about a practical matter?

At my parish, with all the people coughing and sometimes sneezing into the hands that they use at the sign of peace (which makes me sometimes tell them I won't shake their hand for that very reason), it could very well be unsanitary! As I recall, during the SARS outbreak in Toronto a few years ago they told people to NOT shake their hands during the sign of peace.

Cold and flu season will be on us shortly....

[homeschoolmom]

and what about the fact that by the time you grab your neighbors' hands and QUIET yourself back into prayer mode, we are already up to "Thy kingdom come..." Not optimal prayer focus...

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Thomas Michael' date='Sep 7 2004, 07:10 AM'] Hmph. No wonder liturgical reform takes such a painfully long time in the U.S. It's like the bishops are saying the American Church is addicted to hand-holding and they can't stop themselves. Why don't you just start your own American Rite and get it over with, that's what y'all really want, isn't it.... :angry: [/quote]
They have been talking about an American schism for a long time now. I would say the American bishops have a very "fractured" relationship with the Vatican.

All it will take, to me, would be another council reinforcing the Church's stances on contraception, abortion, gay marriages, and an ultimatum for the bishops to put up or shut up, and boom. Some orthodox bishops would stay on, and some would not. You'd probably have the "American Catholic Church" and the "Roman Catholic Church"...

[MC Just]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Sep 7 2004, 12:41 PM'] They have been talking about an American schism for a long time now. I would say the American bishops have a very "fractured" relationship with the Vatican.

All it will take, to me, would be another council reinforcing the Church's stances on contraception, abortion, gay marriages, and an ultimatum for the bishops to put up or shut up, and boom. Some orthodox bishops would stay on, and some would not. You'd probably have the "American Catholic Church" and the "Roman Catholic Church"...

[/quote]
That is most likely going to happen to...

[Scofizzle]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Sep 5 2004, 01:59 PM'] Holding Hands at Mass

Concerning holding hands in the Eucharistic Liturgy the Congregation for Divine Worship in Rome responded as follows:
[b]QUERY: In some places there is a current practice whereby those taking part in the Mass replace the giving of the sign of peace at the deacon's invitation by holding hands during the singing of the Lord's Prayer. Is this acceptable? REPLY: The prolonged holding of hands is of itself a sign of communion rather than of peace. Further, it is a liturgical gesture introduced spontaneously but on personal initiative; it is not in the rubrics. Nor is there any clear explanation of why the sign of peace at the invitation: "Let us offer each other the sign of peace" should be supplanted in order to bring a different gesture with less meaning into another part of the Mass: the sign of peace is filled with meaning, graciousness, and Christian inspiration. Any substitution for it must be repudiated: Notitiae 11 (1975) 226. [Notitiae is the journal of the Congregation in which its official interpretations of the rubrics are published.][/b]
While this addresses the holding of hands at the Sign of Peace the reasons given apply also elsewhere in the Mass, including at the Our Father.
1) It is an inappropriate "sign," since Communion is the sign of intimacy. Thus, a gesture of intimacy is introduced both before the sign of reconciliation (the Sign of Peace), but more importantly, before Holy Communion, the sacramental sign of communion/intimacy within the People of God.
2) It is introduced on personal initiative. The Holy See has authority over the liturgy according to Vatican II's "Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy" #22 and canon 838 of the Code of Canon Law.
This gesture has come into widespread use, often leaving bishops and pastors at a loss as to how to reverse the situation. For individuals, I would recommend closed eyes and a prayerful posture as sufficient response, rather than belligerence. Most laity, and probably many priests, are blind to the liturgical significance of interrupting the flow of the Mass in this way. It is not necessary to lose one's peace over this or be an irritation to others. Some proportion is required. If asked why you don't participate, simply, plainly and charitably tell the questioner of your discovery. If some chance of changing the practice is possible talk to the pastor or work with other laity through the parish council. You can also write the bishop, as is your right in the case of any liturgical abuse not resolved at the parish level. If your judgment is that no change is possible then I believe you are excused from further fraternal correction.

Answered by Colin B. Donovan, STL [/quote]
Did that come from the new GERM?

[AfroNova No Limit Soldier]

Everyone's so freaked out about germs & being touchy-feely with our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Very simply put, we are not to hold hands during the Pater Noster.

HOWEVER, if you're freaked out about germs & being touchy-feely, take this to heart:
1. When the Church first started, everyone exchanged the sign of peace with a kiss. ON THE LIPS.
2. When taking Communion, I usually stick out my tongue (reverently) rather than having Him placed in my hands. THIS CAN SPREAD GERMS! especially when the priest is placing the Host on everyone's tongue. Everyone breathes on his hand.
3. When consuming the Blood of Christ, it is physically possible to exchange germs with everyone drinking out of the same chalice!

I don't care. If I'm gonna get a cold from giving the sign of peace or receiving Communion, FIAT VOLUNTAS TUA!