Laudate_Dominum Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 [quote name='HartfordWhalers' date='Sep 11 2004, 07:17 PM'] Sorry maybe we can discuss one of my two other favorite topics: Novus Ordo vs. TLM or Outside the Church no salvation (the 2 favs among "traditionalist schismatics"--so you know, I believe JPII is Pope). I would liek to discuss these, but I think they are off limits... [/quote] hmm... usually such threads deteriorate rapidly and end up trashed. We could discuss such things via email or something, but that's not as fun as on a forum.. And honestly, those are topics that I am not particularly excited about. Just so you know I've been accused of being both a radical traditionalist and a liberal when it comes to these issues (which is rather amusing to me). well.. ttyl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HartfordWhalers Posted September 12, 2004 Author Share Posted September 12, 2004 LD, What does your signature say?? Also, I would like to send you and email of modified list of things concerning one of the two topics I listed, if you are interested. I know you said it's not too exciting for you, but I would like to see your opinion on this, which is a list you may have seen before. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 cool. send it on down. as far as my signature goes... I'll tell you via PM if you are radically curious. Not that it's secret, it's just.. silly. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 I guess I can't PM you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 not silly, interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HartfordWhalers Posted September 12, 2004 Author Share Posted September 12, 2004 (edited) [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Sep 11 2004, 08:22 PM'] I guess I can't PM you.. [/quote] Lol, oh yeah... Just reply to my email, then. Nevermind... I can't use email either! If you don't mind telling me the address, here is mine: catholic_whalers@yahoo.com. You can email me there with your sig, and I will reply with the list, or you can just email me via phatmass (I think), and I can reply (I think). God bless. Edited September 12, 2004 by HartfordWhalers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 [url="http://www.network54.com/Index/25920"]Here, go to my Phish Outreach Program if you wanna discuss forbidden topics[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 HW, just curious what you would say to my last question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 [quote name='HartfordWhalers' date='Sep 11 2004, 08:30 PM'] Lol, oh yeah... Just reply to my email, then. Nevermind... I can't use email either! If you don't mind telling me the address, here is mine: catholic_whalers@yahoo.com. You can email me there with your sig, and I will reply with the list, or you can just email me via phatmass (I think), and I can reply (I think). God bless. [/quote] cool. my email is recluse@catholic.org God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HartfordWhalers Posted September 13, 2004 Author Share Posted September 13, 2004 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Sep 11 2004, 11:17 PM'] HW, just curious what you would say to my last question. [/quote] I assume you mean "Hartford Whalers, you claim that you are with Augustine, so I want to ask just two questions for now. Do you think that the soul is infused at the beginning of life? For Augustine did. When do you think life begins?" Although I said I was finished, I think I can muster a quick response... I suppose it would make sense that the soul is infused when life begins, since the soul is the true life of the body (a body without a soul is dead...) I am not sure, as I said, when this happens, so I suppose I don't know when life begings. I can tell you that an embryo is a different person than the mother, but that doesn't mean it is yet alive. We don't consider fish eggs in the mother to be alive... so I don't know if this is compatible, though, with a human baby in the womb. Moreover, as I said, I am not arguing for any choice, [i]since I don't know the answer[/i], just that the idea of the soul being infused at conception is not physically possible unless one of the two choices I posed were to happen, neither of which follows logic or Church teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 I would like to have it explained why two, or even 8, souls could not be embodied within 1 fertilized egg that has not subdivided yet and is still only 1 cell. Are souls too big or too heavy? Are not you trying to define and limit the Spritual with Temporal limitations? There is a difference in recognizing the rational and ordered relationship with the Spiritual and Temporal worlds. We are, after all, embodied spirits. But the Temporal does not rule the Spiritual world or Death would not have been defeated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HartfordWhalers Posted September 13, 2004 Author Share Posted September 13, 2004 [quote name='jasJis' date='Sep 13 2004, 11:09 AM'] I would like to have it explained why two, or even 8, souls could not be embodied within 1 fertilized egg that has not subdivided yet and is still only 1 cell. Are souls too big or too heavy? Are not you trying to define and limit the Spritual with Temporal limitations? There is a difference in recognizing the rational and ordered relationship with the Spiritual and Temporal worlds. We are, after all, embodied spirits. But the Temporal does not rule the Spiritual world or Death would not have been defeated. [/quote] Because that means that one person has multiple souls... not because of their mass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 [quote name='HartfordWhalers' date='Sep 13 2004, 10:55 AM'] I assume you mean "Hartford Whalers, you claim that you are with Augustine, so I want to ask just two questions for now. Do you think that the soul is infused at the beginning of life? For Augustine did. When do you think life begins?" Although I said I was finished, I think I can muster a quick response... I suppose it would make sense that the soul is infused when life begins, since the soul is the true life of the body (a body without a soul is dead...) I am not sure, as I said, when this happens, so I suppose I don't know when life begings. I can tell you that an embryo is a different person than the mother, but that doesn't mean it is yet alive. We don't consider fish eggs in the mother to be alive... so I don't know if this is compatible, though, with a human baby in the womb. Moreover, as I said, I am not arguing for any choice, [i]since I don't know the answer[/i], just that the idea of the soul being infused at conception is not physically possible unless one of the two choices I posed were to happen, neither of which follows logic or Church teaching. [/quote] The reason I asked is that scientists have mostly decided that life begins at conception because the embryo can metabolize and grow, and so by that definition it would be alive (The Pope has said it is up to doctors to say when life begins and when it ends). But anyways, that's just a little tidbit on this. Thanx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HartfordWhalers Posted September 13, 2004 Author Share Posted September 13, 2004 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Sep 13 2004, 01:31 PM'] The reason I asked is that scientists have mostly decided that life begins at conception because the embryo can metabolize and grow, and so by that definition it would be alive (The Pope has said it is up to doctors to say when life begins and when it ends). But anyways, that's just a little tidbit on this. Thanx! [/quote] Like I said, we don't consider fish eggs to be alive, which can multiply and grow. What defines when life begins? It is a good question... I am not sure of the answer scientifically, but it seems that a person is not a human being, truly alive, until the soul is infused, and it is not logical that this would happen IMMEDIATELY upon conception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 [quote name='HartfordWhalers' date='Sep 13 2004, 12:51 PM'] Because that means that one person has multiple souls... not because of their mass... [/quote] Wrong. A person is not defined by physical completeness or mental capacity. Is there a limit to the physical "personship" of siamese twins? Is all consciousness limited to physical attributes? NO it isn't. More than 1 consciousness can occupy a small physical space. It's like the old question about how many angels can dance on a pin. Spiritual consciousness is not limited to physical space. Only our earthly/temporal relationships with the earthly/temporal personage is delimted by the physical world. Your assumption that there is only 1 physical person has little to do with the number of souls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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