Dave Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 I stumbled across some Christian (albeit non-Catholic) forums earlier today. I saw that many of the posters actually believed that premarital sex is not wrong because they think you're married, in God's eyes, to your partner! And they try and justify it using the Bible! Well, sounds like just another trap that using the "Bible alone" notion can lead you into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birgitta Noel Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 I've even heard Catholics use that in arguments. Their line goes something like: Marriage is a sacrament that two people confer upon themselves blah blah blah. Even if two people were "married" in the eyes of God, the Church protects marriage by making the sacrament "Public". Otherwise people would run around being married and not acting like it or going back on the "promises" they've made with their bodies. Oh wait, that happens now! Ah, yes, yet another reason to protect the sanctity of marriage! I do have to say, it wasn't until I was married and enjoying the priviledges of marriage that I got just how important it was to wait etc.... Good topic Dave! Birgitta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanHooty Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Yeah... as a matter of fact, I'm currently in a Usenet debate over it, and I just finished a debate with a friend about it over AIM... As a matter of fact, for the record, I asked Dave for some quicky references to refute something about the Bible not really being concerned about premarital sex. And, no, it wasn't a Protestant. It was a former Christian turned agnostic. I don't know much more then that about that person's beliefs (that the Usenet debate). I think the central secular arguement (you need those for the non-religious types) is commitment. I keep on hearing that "you don't need to prove on a piece of paper that you love another person... and if you love another person completely sex is okay." Which we then need to point out that if you aren't willing to prove your love a person by being united with them legally and telling society that you are married and taken, something is wrong. If someone doesn't want to do "the proving," that means he or she isn't totally commited to his or her partner. Which would imply a degree of separation and selfishness, and using that other person for the object of one's desires. Logically, if you aren't totally commited to the person you love, when that commitment wanes, one may decide to "get someone who is better." And as such treating the person you supposedly love like some sort of broken toy. Like an object. Dave gave me this link: http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ203.HTM Were I just got my ideas for my above ramblings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 THink about the first thing that happens in a love relationship: exclusivity. You can't get that person off your mind, you want to promise the world to the other person. Those feelings are there for a reason. If at this point you start having sex your relationship goes downhill from there. Sex becomes more important than the relationship. THe bond that is meant to unite souls becomes a chain instead. Your chances of staying together drop dramatically. If you can't get up and announce your committment in from of family, friends and God, you haven't made one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 its so sad when both ppl in the relationship build themselves on such a false foundation. if your not married, then your not really in love with each other and have no business living with each other.... never before has the saying, "why buy the cow if you can get the milk free?" has ever been so true... ppl dont' want committment anymore, they want whats not going to ask alot of them, like sacrifice or sacramental vows. love is not easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birgitta Noel Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Doh! I'm a PM Peep! Go me! (Birgi does the dance of joy!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 (edited) Great stuff for those who want PURE LOVE......from Jason Evert at Catholic Answers.... B) Pure LOVE Edited September 21, 2003 by jmjtina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 In the "old days" "before my time", weren't there movies detailing how a couple had premarital sex, then got into a car accident before they had the chance to go to confession, and they ended up in hell? Those were the days.....when there were stigmas and a virgin could find a fellow virgin to marry! Anyway, some references: Eph. 5:5 "Make no mistake about this: no fornicator, no unclean or lustful person - in effect an idolator - has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." Rev. 22:14-15 "Happy are they who wash their robes so as to have free access to the tree of life and enter the city through its gates! Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers, the fornicators and the murderers, the idol-worshippers and all who love falsehood." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chastisement Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 My disgust at Prematerial stems from the belief that it's [sex] is the ultimate physical union of two people, and what, if that has been done, is there left for a couple who won't marry? If you're going to share yourself that intimately with another, then get married, and share everything. Not to mention, the majority of these so called "relationships" dont' last very long, so how many people has a person had sex with because they loved them by the time they're 30 and still not married? A lot. I recall an abistance poster at my school "Everytime you have sex, you're having sex with everyone your parnter has ever had sex". IMHO it strikes me as selfish to have prematerial sex, because chances are you dont' really love that person you're jumping into the sack with, and then what do you do when you really do meet that person you want to spend the rest of your life, how can you say to them "Oh, I'm sorry, never thougth I'd meet you, so I had sex with x number of people, oh, and BTW I have herpes and et cetera". I mean, I see my virginity as not belonging to me, but belonging to my future husband, and I'm kinda a stuart for it, prematieral, in my eyes, robs my future husband. I mean, it's like, what more can you give to someone if you share assets, a house, et cetera if you've shagged them extra-materitally? Plus, it's very dangerous. I saw a stat. that said 1 in 3 sexaully active teens has an veneral disease. Also, unplanned pregancy, HIV/AIDS prematerial isn't just a sin in God's eyes, but dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Living together before marriage sets up a relationship pattern before there are any binding commitments and doubles your chance of divorce. And since the divorce rates is already 50% to begin with you are basically doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morostheos Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Last year I had a continuing debate with a protestant friend of mine about whether or not it was okay for her to have sex with her fiance. Her arguement was much like the "we are already married in the eyes of God" arguement, and it was only a matter of time before it was legal as well as spiritual. This is where sacramentality comes into play. In the sacrament of marriage, spiritual graces are bestowed upon the couple through the physical ceremony. It is much the same as the importance of baptism by water. Because we are physical and spiritual beings, God humbles himself to work through the physical to satisfy both our physical and spiritual needs. The problem with Protestant Christianity is they have separated the physical from the spiritual, so the actual marriage ceremony is left as an empty ritual rather than a sacrament bestowed upon them by God. So for my friend, it seemed pointless to her to wait until the end of a ritual, because there was nothing special about the sacrament itself. How sad. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 (edited) Her arguement was much like the "we are already married in the eyes of God" arguement, and it was only a matter of time before it was legal as well as spiritual. My response to her would have been "Says who????" When did God ever say that it was OK? Let's all review the definition of the word "sacrament" - ALL TOGETHER NOW.... 1) An OUTWARD SIGN that is 2) INSTITUTED BY GOD that 3) CONFERS GRACE Using the traditional language to express CCC 1131: </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>CATECHISM:</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 1131: The sacraments are efficacious signs of grace, instituted by Christ and entrusted to the Church, by which divine life is dispensed to us. The visible rites by which the sacraments are celebrated signify and make present the graces proper to each sacrament. They bear fruit in those who receive them with the required dispositions. </td></tr></table> Shacking up before marriage is not the outward sign, the formal marriage vows/consent are; since God spoke of fornication as a sin, how can it be instituted by Him?; and how does a mortal sin confer grace? And without the formal legal recognition, what is there to bid them together? They can just pack up their belongings and go their separate ways. Edited September 21, 2003 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 I think it's also important that we are married not only in the eyes of God (and BTW doesn't that only happen after the Sacrament is conferred?) but also in the eyes of your family, friends, peers, and the Church. What kind of committment are you showing if you don't even stand up in front of them and say... we're married now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReformationNow Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 (edited) The problem with Protestant Christianity is they have separated the physical from the spiritual, so the actual marriage ceremony is left as an empty ritual rather than a sacrament bestowed upon them by God. So for my friend, it seemed pointless to her to wait until the end of a ritual, because there was nothing special about the sacrament itself. How sad. Hey! Ho! Stop the Bus! What? :angry: Edited September 23, 2003 by ReformationNow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReformationNow Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 You know, this place I used to work at, one of the women who worked there asked me how many girls I had slept with so far. My answer was "None." She responded with surprise and asked me why. I told her that I was saving myself for the woman I would one day marry. She told me that I would 'have problems in my marriage, because I would be inexperienced and not know how to give a woman what she wants.' To which I responded, 'Good.' Most people I have worked with have been totally stumped by the fact that I plan to remain a virgin 'til marriage. But I have had some people around my age tell me, 'I wish I had waited.' One more thing, It makes a great witnessing tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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