Heliocentrism Vs. Geocentrism

[Scofizzle]

According to part of the Chaose theory. I declare anything I want the center of the universe. It makes the math harder to prove but it can be done. I annonce this official decree:

PHATMASS IS NOW THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE!!!!!

[Oik]

I wanted to vote "Evolution is dumb," but you didn't have that choice.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='BullnaChinaShop' date='Sep 2 2004, 12:28 PM'] It depends on the bounds of the discussion. If we are just discussing the solar system then Heliocentrism is true. But if we are including all of space then neither is true. [/quote]
Exactly what I was going to say...

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='BullnaChinaShop' date='Sep 2 2004, 09:24 PM'] Not technically. Brahe collected all his observations before the invention of the telescope and therefore he could see many of the stars and planets. And his observations are the basis of the Heliocentric Kepler's Laws. [/quote]
Simple. Say the universe is (for example) eleven billion years old. In that case, you can see everything within a sphere with a radius of eleven billion light-years and no further.

There is actually a theory that the speed of light is slowing down. But like many physics theories it's going to be wrong to some degree. (As a mathematician, we don't trust physicists.)

In fact doing degree-level maths helped me realize the existance of God.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='RandomProddy' date='Sep 2 2004, 05:49 PM'] In fact doing degree-level maths helped me realize the existance of God. [/quote]

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 3 2004, 12:59 AM'] [/quote]
Glad you liked it

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Scofizzle' date='Sep 2 2004, 03:02 PM'] PHATMASS IS NOW THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE!!!!! [/quote]
[img]http://www.toonopedia.com/he-man.jpg[/img]

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Where do some (like Robert Sungenis) get that geocentrism is a rule of faith?

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='BullnaChinaShop' date='Sep 2 2004, 01:28 PM'] It depends on the bounds of the discussion. If we are just discussing the solar system then Heliocentrism is true. But if we are including all of space then neither is true. [/quote]
I disagree. If we are talking about the solar system (as a reference), and we accept the laws of Newtonian physics, then the Earth still doesn't revolve around a fixed sun.

The sun is pulled around the earth with the same force as the earth toward the sun. The same is true for all of the other objects. They are all pulling at eachother.

Just to underline the point, the proof that astronomers show for planets in other solar systems is not a visible confirmation. I don't think that scientists have seen a planet in another solar system. The proof of these planets is shown by observing the oscillation of the star caused by an orbitting planet.

So if someone could show me where the center of mass for the solar system is, then we'd have something! Or maybe someone could point out the center of mass for the Universe. That would be cool!

Enjoy!

[BullnaChinaShop]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' date='Sep 2 2004, 09:55 PM'] I disagree. If we are talking about the solar system (as a reference), and we accept the laws of Newtonian physics, then the Earth still doesn't revolve around a fixed sun.

The sun is pulled around the earth with the same force as the earth toward the sun. The same is true for all of the other objects. They are all pulling at eachother.

Just to underline the point, the proof that astronomers show for planets in other solar systems is not a visible confirmation. I don't think that scientists have seen a planet in another solar system. The proof of these planets is shown by observing the oscillation of the star caused by an orbitting planet.

So if someone could show me where the center of mass for the solar system is, then we'd have something! Or maybe someone could point out the center of mass for the Universe. That would be cool!

Enjoy! [/quote]
Of course the Sun and Earth revolve relative to each other. But since the Sun is the dominant gravitational force in the solar system the Earth and other planets revolve relative to the Sun (the sun is at one of the foci of each planets elliptical orbit). Hence the solar sytem is Heliocentric.

But as you said the Sun is not stationary and moves through space as well. That is why I said neither Heliocentrism nor Geocentrism described the motion of all objects in space.

[dabukthumpa]

you must take into consideration all of the mass in the universe together

There is no factual proof that the Sun has the largest gravitational force in the universe

[dabukthumpa]

I would like to copy something from EWTN's Q/A board where a priest from EWTN defends Geocentrism - using Robert Sugensis's website. Now I know that some here may have mixed feelings about Robert Sugenis - but the fact remains that He has backed all his work up. He has also - stood the ground against the likes of the SSPX and Sedevacantism - which gives him more credibility. All that aside - and looking at his work objectively he Has made a very good case for Geocentrism.

He has given much information with modern Scientist defending Geocentrism, and works where Einstien give the nod to geocentrism as a plausible option. You can get all details from his website.

My next post will be a copy of the EWTN Q/A board - it is lengthy - and I am sorry for that - but it goes into more detail than I personally have time for - with the work I have to do.

[dabukthumpa]

Here is the post: I hope this will help aid the discussion - on some of the points I would like to make. Also - I hope the document is not to long. If it is it can be read at www.catholicintl.com I believe you can still find Fr. Echert's response (using Robert Suginis) on the EWTN website.



Ok the post is too long---- so you will have to brave one of the two websites named above to get the jist of the Geocentric stance.

I still hold to the geocentric universe with earth as the center mass, a rotating universe around the earth, according the Newtons's Laws of gravity in conjunction with Robert Sugenis. No one can really prove either of the Modeled theroies, and I understand that - but according the Scripture, Tradition, the Teaching Authority of the Church - and Science Geocentrism gets my vote.

[BullnaChinaShop]

[quote name='dabukthumpa' date='Sep 3 2004, 11:52 AM'] you must take into consideration all of the mass in the universe together

There is no factual proof that the Sun has the largest gravitational force in the universe [/quote]
So where is your proof that the earth is the center of mass of the universe. This makes a lot of assuptions includiong that the center of mass of the universe is static and not dynamic.


You would be an idiot to think the sun is the largest gravitational force in the universe. But it is the largest gravitational force in the solar system and the Earth follows an elliptical path around the Sun with the sun located at one of the foci of the ellipse.

[dabukthumpa]

but there is no way to prove that the Sun has the dominate gravitaional force in the universe. We must take into account the TOTAL amount of gravitational force that exists in the universe - Geocentrists do not accept the notion that the Sun is the dominate gravitational force in the entire universe - especially when your dealing with a Goecentric model with the earth being at center Mass in the universe - thus making everything else revolve around it - including the Sun.