For Trooper4daholyg

[ironmonk]

Please take note at this quote by luther... the first protestant and founder of the oldest non-Catholic denomination from 1517 AD....

"We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of God, that we received it from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther, Commentary on St. John

I don't know if you haven't studied or you've been told wrong, so, here's a little ditty for ya....

1 Tim 3:15

But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.

The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of truth. To be the Pillar and Foundation of Truth, then the Church must have the authority to teach the Word of God, to teach it infallibly. Infallibly because it is guided by God.

St Matt 18:17 (Jesus said) If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.

Those who do not know Christ or His gospels deny the authority of the Church.

St. Matt 16:18 "And so I say to you, you are Peter (Kephas), and upon this rock (Kephas) I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it."

19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Jesus is speaking directly to Peter here, this english version has been translated 3 times... Originally in Aramaic (Kephas = rock)... Then the Greek were we get the different endings of 'Petros', one is masculine and one is feminine... following proper grammer they could not give Peter the feminine and that is why there is a differnence in the Greek to English... An Aramaic to English would read "...you are Rock, and upon this Rock I will build my church..."

Peter's name in Aramaic was Kepha as shown in John's Gospel and in Paul's letter to the Cornithians. Aramic is what was spoken and it means Rock.

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John 1:42

Then he brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, "You are Simon the son of John; you will be called Kephas" (which is translated Peter).

The argument that Jesus was not calling Peter the Rock is wrong and anyone who uses it has a serious lacking of biblical understanding.

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John 21:15

When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs."

16 He then said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Tend my sheep."

17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." (Jesus) said to him, "Feed my sheep."

This also shows the same as with St. Matt 16:18 that Peter was the leader of the Apostles after Jesus went to Heaven. Peter was the first Pope, as the first Christians taught.

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St. Matt 28:18

Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,

20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."

We believe that when Jesus said this to the Apostles, that the Church will always be around and in every Nation from the first Christians on... and that Jesus will always guide the Church... If Jesus is guiding the Church, then the official teaching of the Church cannot be wrong.

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Luke 10:16 "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me"

We believe that if someone rejects the Church after seeing the Truth, through their own fault, that they are denying Jesus. Now, say for example someone is baptist and honestly believes (through no fault of their own) that the baptist church is the Church that Jesus started, then they are Catholic by desire... They have the desire to know the truth and if they are taught that the lie is the truth, then it's not their fault.

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Matt 5:13

"You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

14 You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden.

15 Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house.

We believe that the True Church that Jesus built will be visable for all to see, that it has been visible since the time of the Apostles... The Catholic Church is the only Church that is 2000 years old... The Catholic Church is the "City set on a Mountain that cannot be hidden." All through history, the Catholic Church has been there, all other Christian churches are less than 400 years old and they do not have a unity of faith. An invisible Church to lead the sheep is a myth, and impossible. If the Church was invisible, then no one would know what the truth was.

John 14:16

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you always,

17 the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you.

18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Jesus promised that the Church would be guided by the Holy Spirit, in Truth. The Church cannot be wrong about faith and morals, because Jesus said so.

Luke 10:16 "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me"

This is another verse that shows there will be One Church to lead, One Church to preach the truth....

2 Thess 2:15

Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.

Who has these letters? Where are they kept?.... Answers... The Catholic Church and at the Vatican.

2 Tim 2:2

And what you heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will have the ability to teach others as well.

These faithful people...who could they be??? Which Church has been around since the Time of Christ & His Apostles? .... The Catholic Church, fulfilling the commands of Jesus.

Ephesians 4:1

I, then, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to live in a manner worthy of the call you have received,

2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love,

3 striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace:

4 2 one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call;

5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

1 Corin 11:2

I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you.

These traditions spoken of are what the Catholic Church hands on....

Acts 8:27

So he got up and set out. Now there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of the Candace, 8 that is, the queen of the Ethiopians, in charge of her entire treasury, who had come to Jerusalem to worship,

28 and was returning home. Seated in his chariot, he was reading the prophet Isaiah.

29 The Spirit said to Philip, "Go and join up with that chariot."

30 Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?"

31 He replied, "How can I, unless someone instructs me?" So he invited Philip to get in and sit with him.

The Catholic Church is a gift from Christ sent to instruct us. Christ promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church (Matt. 16:18) and the New Testament itself declares the Church to be "the pillar and foundation of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

Now... What does the Church of the Bible Look like?

What does the Bible say the Pillar and Truth is??? - The Church...

1 Tim 3:15

But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.

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What does the Church that Christ built look like???? .....

It has Bishops, Priests, and Deacons.

Bishops (episcopoi) have the care of multiple congregations and appoint, ordain, and discipline priests and deacons. They are often called "evangelists" in the New Testament. Examples of first-century bishops include Timothy and Titus (1 Tim. 5:19–22; 2 Tim. 4:5; Titus 1:5).

Priests (presbuteroi) are also known as "presbyters" or "elders." In fact, the English term "priest" is simply a contraction of the Greek word presbuteros. They have the responsibility of teaching, governing, and providing the sacraments in a given congregation (1 Tim. 5:17; Jas. 5:14–15).

Deacons (diakonoi) are the assistants of the bishops and are responsible for teaching and administering certain Church tasks, such as the distribution of food (Acts 6:1–6).

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It is hierarchical.

Matt. 16:18; 18:18 - Jesus uses "ecclesia" only twice in the NT. This proves Jesus intended a visible, unified, hierarchical, and authoritative Church.

1 Cor. 12:28 - God Himself appoints the various positions of authority within the Church. God gives His children authority.

Eph. 4:11 - Church is hierarchical and includes apostles, prophets, pastors, and teachers, all charged to build up the Church.

Phil. 1:1 - Paul addresses the bishops and deacons of the Church. They can all trace their unbroken lineage back to the apostles.

1 Tim. 3:1; Titus 1:7 - Christ's Church has bishops (episcopoi) who are direct successors of the apostles. The bishops can trace the authority conferred upon them back to the apostles.

1 Tim. 5:17; Titus 1:5; James 5:14 - Christ's Church also has elders or priests (presbuteroi) who serve the bishops.

1 Tim. 3:8 - Christ's Church also has deacons (diakonoi). His Church has a hierarchy of authority - bishops, priests and deacons.

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It has the Body and Blood of Christ - The Real Presence

John 6:53 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.

54 Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.

55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.

58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever." .....

......

63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh 22 is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

64 But there are some of you who do not believe." Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.

65 And he said, "For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father."

66 As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.

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The Church (Clergy - disciples) can forgive sins....

St John 20:21

(Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you."

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit.

23 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."

St James 5:14

Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord,

15 and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.

16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.

St. Matt 28:18 Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,

20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."

Matt. 18:18

"Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven"

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It will never be overcome by the Netherworld, it will be like a city on a mountain for all time, it will be Guided by Christ; it will even speak for Christ - It will have ONE Faith....

St. Matt 16:18 "And so I say to you, you are Peter (Kephas), and upon this rock(Kephas) I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it."

John 21:15

8 9 10 When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs."

16 He then said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Tend my sheep."

17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." (Jesus) said to him, "Feed my sheep."

St. Matt 28:18

11 Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

19 Go, therefore, 12 and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,

20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. 13 And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."

Luke 10:16 "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me"

Matt 5:13

11 12 "You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

14

You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden.

15

Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house.

Ephesians 4:1

1 I, then, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to live in a manner worthy of the call you have received,

2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love,

3 striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace:

4 2 one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call;

5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

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Only One Church, One Faith... has been around almost 2000 years and can fit what the Church in the Bible "looks" like... it can be seen today...

The Catholic Church.... built by Christ, on Peter and the Apostles.

God Bless, Love in Christ & Mary

ironmonk

more coming soon....

[ironmonk]

Can you come up with any writings before 400 AD to prove that your church is the Church established by Christ????

Ephesus (Ephesians - A Catholic Church) From 27 B.C. till a little after A.D. 297, Ephesus was the capital of the proconsular province of Asia, a direct dependency of the Roman Senate. Though unimportant politically, it was noted for its extensive commerce. Many illustrious persons were born at Ephesus It was through the Jews that Christianity was first introduced into Ephesus. The original community was under the leadership of Apollo (I Cor., i, 12). They were disciples of St. John the Baptist, and were converted by Aquila and Priscilla. Then came St. Paul, who lived three years at Ephesus to establish and organize the new church; he was wont to teach in the schola or lecture-hall of the rhetorician Tyrannus (Acts, xix, 9) and performed there many miracles.. The Church of Ephesus was committed to his disciple, St. Timothy, a native of the city (I Tim., 1, 3; II Tim., 1, 18; iv, 12). The Epistle of St. Paul to the Esphesians was not perhaps addressed directly to them; it may be only a circular letter sent by him to several churches. The sojourn and death of the Apostle St. John at Ephesus are not mentioned in the New Testament, but both are attested as early as the latter part of the second century by St. Irenaeus (Adv. Haer., III, iii, 4), Polycrates, Bishop of Ephesus (Eusebius, Hist. Eccl., V, xx1), Clement of Alexandria, the "Acta Joannis", and a little earlier by St. Justin and the Montanists. About 110 St. Ignatius of Antioch, having been greeted at Smyrna by messengers of the Church of Ephesus, sent to it one of his seven famous epistles. During the first three centuries, Ephesus was, next to Antioch, the chief centre of Christianity in Asia Minor. In the year 190 its bishop, St. Polycrates, held a council to consider the paschal controversy and declared himself in favour of the Quartodeciman practice; nevertheless the Ephesian Church soon conformed in this particular to the practice of all the other Churches. It seems certain that the sixth canon of the Council of Nicaea (325), confirmed for Ephesus its ecclesiastical jurisdiction over the whole "diocese" or civil territory of Asia Minor. Ephesus was taken in 655 and 717 by the Arabs. Later it became the capital of the theme of the Thracesians. During the Iconoclastic period two bishops of Ephesus suffered martyrdom, Hypatius in 735 and Theophilus in the ninth century.

Corinth (Corinthians - Another Catholic Church)St. Paul preached successfully at Corinth, where he lived in the house of Aquila and Priscilla (Acts, xviii, 1), where Silas and Timothy soon joined him. After his departure he was replaced by Apollo, who had been sent from Ephesus by Priscilla. The Apostle visited Corinth at least once more. He wrote to the Corinthians in 57 from Ephesus, and then from Macedonia in the same year, or in 58. The famous letter of St. Clement of Rome to the Corinthian church (about 96) exhibits the earliest evidence concerning the ecclesiastical primacy of the Roman Church. Besides St. Apollo, Lequien (II, 155) mentions forty-three bishops: among them, St. Sosthenes (?), the disciple of St. Paul, St. Dionysius; Paul, brother of St. Peter, Bishop of Argos in the tenth century; St. Athanasius, in the same century; George, or Gregory, a commentator of liturgical hymns. Corinth was the metropolis of all Hellas. After the Byzantine emperors had violently withdrawn Illyricum from Papal direction, Corinth appears as a metropolis with seven suffragan sees; at the beginning of the eighteenth century there were only two united in one title. Since 1890 Corinth, for the Greeks, has been a simple bishopric, but the first in rank, Athens being the sole archbishopric of the Kingdom of Greece. Lequien (III, 883) mentions twenty Latin prelates from 1210 to 1700, the later ones being only titular. But Eubel (I, 218; II, 152) mentions twenty-two archbishops for the period from 1212 to 1476.

Antioch - Just read all of St Ignatius writings i've posted here, A very Catholic Church

Since the city of Antioch was a great centre of government and civilization, the Christian religion spread thither almost from the beginning. Nicolas, one of the seven deacons in Jerusalem, was from Antioch (Acts, vi, 5). The seed of Christ's teaching was carried to Antioch by some disciples from Cyprus and Cyrene, who fled from Jerusalem during the persecution that followed upon the martyrdom of St. Stephen (Acts, xi, 19, 20). They preached the teachings of Jesus, not only to the Jewish colony but also to the Greeks or Gentiles, and soon large numbers were converted. The mother-church of Jerusalem having heard of the occurrence sent Barnabas thither, who called Saul from Tarsus to Antioch (ib., 22, 25). There they laboured for a whole year with such success that the followers of Christ were acknowledged as forming a distinct community, "so that at Antioch the disciples were first named Christians" (ib., 26). Their charity was exhibited by the offerings sent to the famine-stricken brethren in Judea. St. Peter himself came to Antioch (Gal., ii, 11), probably about the year 44, and according to all appearances lived there for some time. The community of Antioch, being composed in part of Greeks or Gentiles, had views of its own on the character and conditions of the new religion. There was a faction among the disciples in Jerusalem which maintained that the Gentile converts to Christianity should pass first through Judaism by submitting to the observances of the Mosaic law, such as circumcision and the like. This attitude seemed to close the gates to the Gentiles, and was strongly contested by the Christians of Antioch. Their plea for Christian liberty was defended by their leaders, Paul and Barnabas, and received full recognition in the Apostolic Council of Jerusalem (Acts, xv, 22- 32). Later on St. Paul defends this principle at Antioch even in the face of Peter (Gal., ii, 11). Antioch became soon a centre of missionary propaganda. It was thence that St. Paul and his companions started on their journey for the conversion of the nations. The Church of Antioch was also fully organized almost from the beginning. It was one of the few original churches which preserved complete the catalogue of its bishops. The first of these bishops, Evodius, reaches back to the Apostolic age. At a very early date the Christian community of Antioch became the central point of all the Christian interests in the East. After the fall of Jerusalem (A. D. 70) it was the real metropolis of Christianity in those countries.

In the meantime the number of Christians grew to such an extent, that in the first part of the fourth century Antioch was looked upon as practically a Christian city. Many churches were erected there for the accommodation of the worshippers of Christ. In the fourth century there was still a basilica called "the ancient" and "apostolic". It was probably one of the oldest architectural monuments of Christianity; an ancient tradition maintained that it was originally the house of Theophilus, the friend of St. Luke (Acts, i, 1). There were also sanctuaries dedicated to the memory of the great Apostles, Peter, Paul, and John. Saint Augustine speaks (Sermo, ccc., n. 5) of a "basilica of the holy Machabees" at Antioch, a famous shrine from the fourth to the sixth century (Card. Rampolla, in "Bessarione", Rome, 1897-98, I-II). Among the pagan temples dedicated to Christian uses was the celebrated Temple of Fortune (Tychæion). In it the Christians of Antioch enshrined the body of their great bishop and martyr Ignatius. There was also a martyrium or memorial shrine of Babylas, a third-century martyr and bishop of Antioch, who suffered death in the reign of Decius. For the development of Christian domestic architecture in the vicinity of the great city see De Vogué, "Architecture civile et religieuse de la Syrie Centrale" (Paris, 1867-77), and the similar work of Howard Crosby Butler (New York, 1903). The very important monastic architecture of the vicinity will be described under SIMEON STYLITES and BYZANTINE ARCHITECTURE. The Emperor Constantine (306-337) built a church there, which he adorned so richly that it was the admiration of all contemporaries (St. John Chrys., "Hom. in Ep. ad Eph.", X, 2; Eus., "Vita Const.", III, 50, and "De laud. Const.", c. 9). It was completely pillaged, but not destroyed, by Chosroes in 540. the Church of Antioch showed itself worthy of being the metropolis of Christianity in the east. In the ages of persecution it furnished a very large quota of martyrs, the bishops setting the example. It may suffice to mention St. Ignatius at the beginning of the second century; Asclepiades under Septimius Severus (193-211); and Babylas under Decius (249-251). It produced also a number of great men, who either in writing or otherwise distinguished themselves in the service of Christianity. The letters of the afore-mentioned St. Ignatius are very famous. Theophilus wrote in the latter part of the second century an elaborate defense and explanation of the Christian religion. In later ages there were such men as Flavian, who did much to reunite the Christians of Antioch divided by the Arian disputes; St. John Chrysostom, afterwards Bishop of Constantinople, and Theodoret, afterwards Bishop of Cyrus in Syria. Several heresies took their rise in Antioch. In the third century Paul of Samosata, Bishop of Antioch, professed erroneous doctrines. Arianism had its original root not in Alexandria but in the great Syrian city, Antioch; Nestorianism sprang from it through Theodore of Mopsuestia and Nestorius of Constantinople. A peculiar feature of Antiochene life was the frequency of conflict between the Jews and the Christians; several grievous seditions and massacres are noted by the historians from the end of the fourth to the beginning of the seventh century (Leclercq, Dict. d'arch. et de liturg. chrét., I, col 2396).

Rome (Central for Christianity; Peter was the leader of Christians when Jesus went to heaven, authority given to him by Jesus... Peter was the Bishop of Rome; Peter's replacement, would have the same authority as Peter) The significance of Rome lies primarily in the fact that it is the city of the pope. The Bishop of Rome, as the successor of St. Peter, is the Vicar of Christ on earth and the visible head of the Catholic Church. Rome is consequently the centre of unity in belief, the source of ecclesiastical jurisdiction and the seat of the supreme authority which can bind by its enactments the faithful throughout the world.It is here that the history of the Church can be traced from the earliest days, from the humble beginnings in the Catacombs to the majestic ritual of St. Peter's. At every turn one comes upon places hallowed by the deaths of the martyrs, the lives of innumerable saints, the memories of wise and holy pontiffs. From Rome the bearers of the Gospel message went out to the peoples of Europe and eventually to the uttermost ends of the earth. To Rome, again, in every age countless pilgrims have thronged from all the nations, and especially from English-speaking countries. Ancient tradition assigns to the year 42 the first coming of St. Peter to Rome, though, according to the pseudo-Clementine Epistles, St. Barnabas was the first to preach the Gospel in the Eternal City. Under Claudius (c. A.D. 50), the name of Christ had become such an occasion of discord among the Hebrews of Rome that the emperor drove them all out of the city, though they were not long in returning. About ten years later Paul also arrived, a prisoner, and exercised a vigorous apostolate during his sojourn. The Christians were numerous at that time, even at the imperial Court. The burning of the city -- by order of Nero, who wished to effect a thorough renovation -- was the pretext for the first official persecution of the Christian name. Moreover, it was very natural that persecution, which had been occasional, should in course of time have become general and systematic; hence it is unnecessary to transfer the date of the Apostles' martyrdom from the year 67, assigned by tradition, to the year 64 (see PETER, SAINT; PAUL, SAINT). Domitian's reign took its victims both from among the opponents of absolutism and from the Christians; among them some who were of very exalted rank -- Titus Flavius Clemens, Acilius Glabrio (Cemetery of Priscilla), and Flavia Domitilla, a relative of the emperor. It must have been then, too, that St. John, according to a very ancient legend (Tertullian), was brought to Rome. .

The word Catholic comes from the Greek word that means "Universal"...

The word Catholic (katholikos from katholou -- throughout the whole, i.e., universal) occurs in the Greek classics, e.g., in Aristotle and Polybius, and was freely used by the earlier Christian writers in what we may call its primitive and non-ecclesiastical sense. Thus we meet such phrases as "the catholic resurrection" (Justin Martyr), "the catholic goodness of God" (Tertullian), "the four catholic winds" (Irenaeus), where we should now speak of "the general resurrection", "the absolute or universal goodness of God", "the four principal winds", etc. The word seems in this usage to be opposed to merikos (partial) or idios (particular), and one familiar example of this conception still survives in the ancient phrase "Catholic Epistles" as applied to those of St. Peter, St. Jude, etc., which were so called as being addressed not to particular local communities, but to the Church at large.

The combination "the Catholic Church" (he katholike ekklesia) is found for the first time in the letter of St. Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans, written about the year 110. The words run: "Wheresoever the bishop shall appear, there let the people be, even as where Jesus may be, there is the universal [katholike] Church." However, in view of the context, some difference of opinion prevails as to the precise connotation of the italicized word, and Kattenbusch, the Protestant professor of theology at Giessen, is prepared to interpret this earliest appearance of the phrase in the sense of mia mone, the "one and only" Church [Das apostolische Symbolum (1900), II, 922]. .

Peter was the leader, he was in Rome, he wrote from Rome (1 Peter 5:13), he died in Rome. You have a right to live in err, as for me and the 1 Billion Catholics in the world, I think we'll listen to the first Christians, from the oldest organization on earth, The Catholic Church, built by Jesus.

Ignatius of Antioch

"Not as Peter and Paul did, do I command you [Romans]. They were apostles, and I am a convict" (Letter to the Romans 4:3 [A.D. 110])

"Ignatius . . . to the church also which holds the presidency, in the location of the country of the Romans, worthy of God, worthy of honor, worthy of blessing, worthy of praise, worthy of success, worthy of sanctification, and, because you hold the presidency in love, named after Christ and named after the Father" (Letter to the Romans 1:1 [A.D. 110]).

"You [the church at Rome] have envied no one, but others you have taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force" (ibid., 3:1). .

Irenaeus

"Matthew also issued among the Hebrews a written Gospel in their own language, while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church" (Against Heresies, 3, 1:1 [A.D. 189])

"It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known to us throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors down to our own times, men who neither knew nor taught anything like what these heretics rave about" (Against Heresies 3:3:1 [A.D. 189]).

"But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul—that church which has the tradition and the faith with which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. For with this Church, because of its superior origin, all churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world. And it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition" (ibid., 3:3:2).

Tertullian

"Was anything withheld from the knowledge of Peter, who is called ‘the rock on which the Church would be built’ [Matt. 16:18] with the power of ‘loosing and binding in heaven and on earth’ [Matt. 16:19]?" (Demurrer Against the Heretics 22 [A.D. 200]).

"[T]he Lord said to Peter, ‘On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. . . . What kind of man are you, subverting and changing what was the manifest intent of the Lord when he conferred this personally upon Peter? Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys" (Modesty 21:9–10 [A.D. 220]).

Pope Clement I

"Through countryside and city [the apostles] preached, and they appointed their earliest converts, testing them by the Spirit, to be the bishops and deacons of future believers. Nor was this a novelty, for bishops and deacons had been written about a long time earlier. . . . Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry" (Letter to the Corinthians 42:4–5, 44:1–3 [A.D. 80]).

Jerome

"I follow no leader but Christ and join in communion with none but your blessedness [Pope Damasus I], that is, with the chair of Peter. I know that this is the rock on which the Church has been built. Whoever eats the Lamb outside this house is profane. Anyone who is not in the ark of Noah will perish when the flood prevails" (Letters 15:2 [A.D. 396]).

...

"The church here is split into three parts, each eager to seize me for its own. . . . Meanwhile I keep crying, ‘He that is joined to the chair of Peter is accepted by me!’ . . . Therefore, I implore your blessedness [Pope Damasus I] . . . tell me by letter with whom it is that I should communicate in Syria" (ibid., 16:2).

Augustine

"There are many other things which rightly keep me in the bosom of the Catholic Church. The consent of the people and nations keeps me, her authority keeps me, inaugurated by miracles, nourished in hope, enlarged by love, and established by age. The succession of priests keep me, from the very seat of the apostle Peter (to whom the Lord after his resurrection gave charge to feed his sheep) down to the present episcopate [of Pope Siricius]" (Against the Letter of Mani Called "The Foundation" 5 [A.D. 397]).

"[On this matter of the Pelagians] two councils have already been sent to the Apostolic See [the bishop of Rome], and from there rescripts too have come. The matter is at an end; would that the error too might be at an end!" (Sermons 131:10 [A.D. 411]).

[ironmonk]

From www.Britannica.com

Roman Catholicism

Encyclopædia Britannica Article

Christian church characterized by its uniform, highly developed doctrinal and organizational structure that traces its history to the Apostles of Jesus Christ in the 1st century AD. Along with Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestantism, it is one of the three major branches of Christianity.

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About AD 95 Clement, bishop of Rome, in his letter to the church in Corinth ( First Letter of Clement ), expressed the view that bishops succeeded the Apostles.

originally titled Letter To The Church Of Corinth; also called I Clement, a letter to the Christian Church in Corinth from the church of Rome, traditionally ascribed to and almost certainly written by St. Clement I of Rome, c. AD 96. It is extant in a 2nd-century Latin translation, which is possibly the oldest surviving Latin Christian work. Regarded as scripture by many 3rd- and 4th-century Christians, it was transmitted in manuscripts with a sermon known as the Second Letter of Clement, written c. 125–140 by an unknown author.

Concerned about a dispute in the Corinthian Church in which younger members had deposed older men from the ministry, the letter opposed the deposition and discussed the orders of the ministry, which it asserted were established by the Apostles and were the will of God. The First Letter of Clement was an important influence on the development in the church of the episcopal orders of the ministry (bishops, priests, deacons), and it has been used to support the doctrine of the apostolic succession, according to which bishops represent a direct, unbroken line of succession from the Apostles.

The idea of apostolic succession appears in the writings of Irenaeus, a Church Father who died about 202. Against the Gnostics (dualistic sects that maintained that salvation is not from faith but from some esoteric knowledge) Irenaeus urged that the Catholic teaching was verified because a continuous succession of teachers, beginning with the Apostles, could be demonstrated. In the 3rd and 4th centuries problems of schism within churches were resolved by appealing to the power of orders (i.e., the powers a person has by reason of his ordination either as deacon, priest, or bishop) transmitted by the imposition of hands through a chain from the Apostles. Orders in turn empowered the subject to receive the power of jurisdiction (i.e., the powers an ordained person has by reason of his office). In disputes between Rome and the Eastern churches the idea of apostolic succession was centred in the Roman pontiff, the successor of Peter; it will be observed that this goes beyond the idea of collegial succession. Apostolic authority is defined as the power to teach, to administer the sacraments, and to rule the church. Apostolic succession in the Roman Catholic understanding is validated only by the recognition of the Roman pontiff; and the Roman Catholic Church understands the designation “apostolic” in the creed as referring to this threefold power under the primacy of the Roman pontiff.

The idea of apostolic succession appears in the writings of Irenaeus, a Church Father who died about 202. Against the Gnostics (dualistic sects that maintained that salvation is not from faith but from some esoteric knowledge) Irenaeus urged that the Catholic teaching was verified because a continuous succession of teachers, beginning with the Apostles, could be demonstrated. In the 3rd and 4th centuries problems of schism within churches were resolved by appealing to the power of orders (i.e., the powers a person has by reason of his ordination either as deacon, priest, or bishop) transmitted by the imposition of hands through a chain from the Apostles. Orders in turn empowered the subject to receive the power of jurisdiction (i.e., the powers an ordained person has by reason of his office). In disputes between Rome and the Eastern churches the idea of apostolic succession was centred in the Roman pontiff, the successor of Peter; it will be observed that this goes beyond the idea of collegial succession. Apostolic authority is defined as the power to teach, to administer the sacraments, and to rule the church. Apostolic succession in the Roman Catholic understanding is validated only by the recognition of the Roman pontiff; and the Roman Catholic Church understands the designation “apostolic” in the creed as referring to this threefold power under the primacy of the Roman pontiff.

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How Old Is Your Church?

If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.

If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534, because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to re-marry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605.

If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.

If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.

If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.

If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.

If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as "Church of the Nazarene," "Pentecostal Gospel," "Holiness Church," "Pilgrim Holiness Church," "Jehovah's Witnesses," your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past one hundred years.

If you belong to a non-denominational church, your religion was founded by a splinter group of the "Church of Christ", back in the 1970's.

If you are Roman Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.

"O God,

I humbly beseech thee to teach me thy true religion,

that leads to everlasting happiness,

through Jesus Christ thy Son, our Lord. Amen."

God Bless, Love in Christ & Mary

ironmonk

[ironmonk]

One more thing...

If you love Christ, do not ever refer to the Catholic Church as BS again.

-ironmonk

[MC Just]

"Jerome

"I follow no leader but Christ and join in communion with none but your blessedness [Pope Damasus I], that is, with the chair of Peter. I know that this is the rock on which the Church has been built. Whoever eats the Lamb outside this house is profane. Anyone who is not in the ark of Noah will perish when the flood prevails" (Letters 15:2 [A.D. 396]). "

Now that is dope.

[Trooper4DaHolyG]

Ok, the only strength you have is your crappy little writings. Probably best you don't refer to scripture coz it really doesn't help your case @ all... Just a little sad, some one asked were does it say Protestant in the bible? ahh it does say Pentecost.

Kind of what the Pentecostals like to follow

beside I am not part of a denomination or a protestant...

Catholocism will show me true happiness? WOW! for real? Maybe you should have some type of TV AD campaign hey?

If all you guys have is History I really feel sorry for you, I am so glad other Catholics have been able to find the TRUTH. It has really set them free, they know who they are in Christ not were there building/traditions orientate from. These Catholics didn't change to Protestantism NO they are still proud Catholics just alot more straight than you guys are leaving History behind them and looking on to the future....

Have fun doing whatever you do 'Protestant' haters.

[cmotherofpirl]

lol

Considering many people here are former protestants or generic christians, it would be a bit silly to hate ourselves.

[littleflower+JMJ]

Ok, the only strength you have is your crappy little writings.

those early "little" writings hold nothing but the truth and i fail to see anything else more worthy to compare

Probably best you don't refer to scripture coz it really doesn't help your case @ all...

actually the bible came out of hte Catholic Church, not the other way around. so yes, in fact, scripture does help us. the disciples (the first catholics) wrote it. so i'm pretty sure we'll use that.

Catholocism will show me true happiness?

it could if you seek the truth. ask and you shall recieve, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you.

If all you guys have is History I really feel sorry for you

again you are mistaken. i feel the same for you if you only have the bible and divison among you.

the catholic church has so much more than history, again i encourage you find out and learn more, who knows you might be alittle surprised.

God BLess!

your sister in christ,

littleflower

+JMJ

[Dave]

Ok, the only strength you have is your crappy little writings. Probably best you don't refer to scripture coz it really doesn't help your case @ all... Just a little sad, some one asked were does it say Protestant in the bible? ahh it does say Pentecost.

Ironmonk referred to a lot of Scripture in his posts, especially his first one. Did you not read it? If you still have this arrogant attitude and aren't arguing with the points that were brought up, then you must not have read it. The fact is, if you had read it, you'd maybe start to see that there IS a biblical basis for the Catholic Church!

beside I am not part of a denomination or a protestant...

Well, you're definitely a Protestant. If you call yourself a Christian but disagree with Catholic teachings, you can't very well be a Catholic, so by process of elimination, you're a Protestant.

Catholocism will show me true happiness? WOW! for real? Maybe you should have some type of TV AD campaign hey?

Like jmj said, it could if you seek the truth. What makes you so certain what you believe is true? What makes you so certain you know how to interpret the Bible correctly? And don't tell me you're guided by the Holy Spirit! That's what most Protestants say when they interpret the Bible in some way. But others come to different interpretations and yet say that THEY are guided by the Holy Spirit. Well, God is a God of truth and order, not lies and confusion. And yet, that's what Protestantism is based on -- lies because people like Martin Luther chose to substitute their own man-made doctrines for the teachings of Christ, and confusion because of all the denominations out there, no two of which agree on what the Bible means.

If all you guys have is History I really feel sorry for you,

History is one of the things that helps prove the truth of Catholicism! For 2000 years it has existed despite persecutions and bad clergy and laity. Any merely human institution would've collapsed early on!

I am so glad other Catholics have been able to find the TRUTH. It has really set them free, they know who they are in Christ not were there building/traditions orientate from. These Catholics didn't change to Protestantism NO they are still proud Catholics just alot more straight than you guys are leaving History behind them and looking on to the future....

Catholics already have the truth. But it sounds like you're saying that other Catholics have found WHAT YOU CALL the truth. Note that the truth and what you call the truth aren't necessarily the same thing. It sounds to me like these Catholics to whom you refer are Protestantized. If that's the case, then, in the words of St. Paul, they've "exchanged the truth for a lie." Such people shouldn't even call themselves Catholics anymore and should at least have the decency to leave the Church peacefully instead of staying there and trying to destroy the Church from within. However, what I really hope is that their eyes someday open to the truth, not what you call the truth, so that they may reconcile themselves to God and His Church.

Have fun doing whatever you do 'Protestant' haters.

How very mature . . . resorting to name-calling when you can't refute what we tell you.

Edited September 21, 2003 by Dave

[Trooper4DaHolyG]

sorry Pope Dave

If i have offended you oh ORACLE OF TRUTH! Dude get a reality check, your attitude will not survive in the real world. You shut people down because you have a holier than thou attitude.

Looks like the internet is your only source of letting it all go. You base yourself on human teachings, and reject the truth when it comes to the Holy Spirit. You are not ready to take him as your guide, when you are ready; then come up with a meaningful piece of prose...

one of your little friends is bound to say 'hey great post dave', you must feed of this hey? If only Jesus was happy with what you posted, thats who really matters. Pray about these things before you put them as your opinion.

You are living in your own strength and are not letting go of the drivers seat...

CALL this whatever you want a personal attack on a Catholic, but after all the posts I have seen you done its time for prayer and reflection buddy...

Learn to play with others.

Edited September 21, 2003 by Trooper4DaHolyG

[Paladin D]

I can't speak for everyone on the phorum, but I was a Pentecostal most of my Christian life. There are Catholics that are were raised Catholic, nothing wrong with that at all. But in my case Trooper, I know exactly a lot on what I was taught. Most of my beliefs were held by Protestants (with some Catholicism here and there). I've heard all the sermons about this and that. How to improve your spiritual life, and so forth.

I applaud and am grateful that there are non-Catholic Christians (which I was, well...legally still am) that try to find God in the ways they know how and serve Him. However, what tears me up is the fact that they're running around in circles. They try and search for answers while their answer is right infront of them, the Catholic Church.

Trust me, I'm not some hoax. I was extremely proud (and still am) being a Christian. I was a full, big Jesus Freak guy (well still am too). The decision I made to follow the Catholic Church was a fantastic and heart warming expierence I will never forget.

I am not exactly sure how it started, I was first introduced to Catholicism (from what I remember) when I was about 10. When I started going to Mass for 3 years (then stopped), and even became an Alter Server. For some odd reason, I wasn't even Catholic. Maybe I was a natural??? Again my parents and I were ignorant (even though they were baptised in the Catholic Church). They aren't really what you would call...faithful Catholics anymore. They have a mixture of Catholic and Protestant beliefs now.

Anyways back to my point. Hearing all these sermons and teachings, I began to become confused. Some teachings contradicted others, some believed in this and that, all of them famous preachers with some different beliefs. I was growing up, and I knew they weren't perfect...nor my parents. I know my parents wouldn't deliberatly decieve me, but I had a feeling they were wrong on somethings.

Anyways, around the age of 16...(this January) was when I started to REALLY get into Catholicism. How this burst started? Well beforehand it was a combination of confusion, and hunger for something more. Now...it was an Anti-Catholic history book I was using.

Mainly during the medieval age chapters and beyond, they made a lot of weird and disturbing claims against the Catholic Church and there doctrine. I was curious, because I felt something inside that...somehow...this isn't the whole picture. So I did my own study, browsing the web...looking up things. Seeing what Catholics believe (and to my suprise, some of there doctrine was what I already personally believed) and why.

And to cut my expierence short, I grew attached to the Catholic Church ever since. I'm still learning here and there, and love it. I tried doing the whole "read the Scriptures for yourself, and see what they mean" bit, and the what is God saying to you? tid bit as if I was being obligated/forced to hear God's voice all the time. But the truth was...sometimes I did...sometimes I didn't.

I felt that I must be the uber Bible dude, who knows every verse inside out, who can hear God 24/7, never sin, and so forth. Thats how I felt that others were expecting me to be. I'm not saying we should not try and become Christ-like, but what I felt was...(lack of term?).

Trooper, with all do respect...you are ignorant. Learn what the Catholic Church teaches, browse the web and find reasons WHY they believe what they believe. I don't hate Protestants (I'd be hating my former past and my family).

But I get freakin pissed the hell off, with people like you (Protestant or not) who come here and are ignorant as a hunter trying to fish for carp. You make it seem that Catholics (and I, despite being a former Protestant) have nothing but history to back up our faith and beliefs. You are pathetic!

The Catholic Church has showed me the way to true happiness. Your sarcasm and mockery are not welcomed here. Sure you can dish it out, but when we hit it back, you can't take it.

Note: What's also pretty amazing, is how (personal expierence) I would (and others) would try and share Christ with others. We would say that this is the true religion, and yours is 100% false. Nothing wrong with evanglizing, but the way we were doing it was wrong. We were thinking in a "Christian" mind-set, and not in a "neutral" mind-set. So it was like throwing water against a concrete (typo?) wall!

Also, when I see Protestants try converting Catholics...they expect Catholics not to get defensive. Yet...when Catholics try evanglizing to Protestants...they go bonkers and rage on how "How can you claim your right and I'm wrong?". I've also heard that come out from the many mouths of non-Christians. HYPOCRICY!

Further Note: Funny how you just mentioned the whole "TV Ad campaign". Considering Protestants tend to be more into business and money making for their ministries.

Edited September 21, 2003 by Paladin D

[littleflower+JMJ]

sorry Pope Dave

If i have offended you oh ORACLE OF TRUTH!

you have offended nobody but yourself trooper

Dude get a reality check, your attitude will not survive in the real world. You shut people down because you have a holier than thou attitude

nowhere does dave show such attitude. but i do see it in others that call other ppl names and refute with insults and zero facts to back them up.

You base yourself on human teachings, and reject it when it comes to the Holy Spirit. You are not ready to take him as your guide when you are then come up with something with actuall meaning behind your post...

look in the mirror please trooper, i think you are not ready. and it shows. like it said, unless you have a reason to be scared, you shouldn't be to read what we have to say.

Learn to play with others.

and with goes along with listening to what others have to say.

God bLess!

your sister in christ,

littleflower+JMJ

[Cure of Ars]

Ironmonk,

I think that your posts are having the opposite affect that you want. I think that your posts are too long and because of this it overwhelms anyone that wants to dialogue with you. Overwhelming someone is going to pushes the person you are talking to away. It is going to hinder communication and openness to what you are saying.

The ultimate goal is to bring people closer to Christ. I think if you would keep your post a lot shorter that you would be for effective. God bless

[Paladin D]

sorry Pope Dave

If i have offended you oh ORACLE OF TRUTH! Dude get a reality check, your attitude will not survive in the real world.

Look who's talking jerk.

You shut people down because you have a holier than thou attitude.

Sounds like you.

Looks like the internet is your only source of letting it all go. You base yourself on human teachings, and reject the truth when it comes to the Holy Spirit.

Sure sure sure...

You are not ready to take him as your guide, when you are ready; then come up with a meaningful piece of prose...

I believe he is, you're just arrogant.

one of your little friends is bound to say 'hey great post dave', you must feed of this hey? If only Jesus was happy with what you posted, thats who really matters.

Yep, it does.

Pray about these things before you put them as your opinion.

What, Catholics don't pray?

You are living in your own strength and are not letting go of the drivers seat...

No comment.

CALL this whatever you want a personal attack on a Catholic, but after all the posts I have seen you done its time for prayer and reflection buddy...

Learn to play with others.

I think you need to re-read the game manuel.

[Trooper4DaHolyG]

To Palladin D

yeah were good @ stuff like that. growing heaps spiritually and getting blessed financially

nice story, thanks for callin me ignorant, guess you have some authority coming from my background. You have found the truth, I wonder if that truth is for everyone I really do wonder. Going to research Catholisism a bit more sounds like fun...

To Little Flower + JMJ

The Holy Spirit is working in my life and my ministry quote me once saying something as truth which is not found in the bible, you broke up a post not directed to you, need I say more?