Pray Hard!

[BrightSunshine]

Honestly, I if I were old enough to vote, I wouldn't be. The Pope told the Presedient to to go into war and Kerry's positions on abortion, stem cell research, and gay marriages are wrong.

BTW, my mom told that they for stem cell research, all they have to do it take the umbilical cord when a woman has a baby. So what they are doing is wrong and there is another way to do it.

[Iacobus]

A few things,

About the Zel Miller speech, read the factcheck.org article on it.

[url="http://factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=252"]http://factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=252[/url]

And as a side note, factcheck.org is really a good site for researching the claims the poltians make. Go to the front page, they have the last 8 or so articles posted. And the rest are in the archive.

And secondly,

I refuse to pray for Bush to win.

Like my HS Catholic Football coach says "I never pray for us to win. I just pray that all play clean, no one on either side gets hurt, everyone plays the best they can, they have fun, and the best team wins. In short, 'Thy will be done.'"

That is how I pray for pres. Thy will be done. Not my win. Not the GOP's will. Not the Dem's will. But THY will. May the best man win.

And it make shock you to know Bush isn't the best man either.

[Colleen]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Sep 3 2004, 09:40 PM']And it make shock you to know Bush isn't the best man either.[/quote]
He may not be the best, but he's a lot better than Kerry.

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/voters_guide.asp"]Voter's Guide put out by Catholic Answers[/url]

[quote]THE FIVE NON-NEGOTIABLE ISSUES

These five current issues concern actions that are intrinsically evil and must never be promoted by the law. Intrinsically evil actions are those which fundamentally conflict with the moral law and can never be deliberately performed under any circumstances. It is a serious sin to deliberately endorse or promote any of these actions, and no candidate who really wants to advance the common good will support any action contrary to the non-negotiable principles involved in these issues.

1. Abortion

The Church teaches that, regarding a law permitting abortions, it is "never licit to obey it, or to take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law, or to vote for it" (EV 73). Abortion is the intentional and direct killing of an innocent human being, and therefore it is a form of homicide.

The unborn child is always an innocent party, and no law may permit the taking of his life. Even when a child is conceived through rape or incest, the fault is not the child's, who should not suffer death for others' sins.

2. Euthanasia

Often disguised by the name "mercy killing," euthanasia also is a form of homicide. No person has a right to take his own life, and no one has the right to take the life of any innocent person.

In euthanasia, the ill or elderly are killed, by action or omission, out of a misplaced sense of compassion, but true compassion cannot include intentionally doing something intrinsically evil to another person (cf. EV 73).

3. Embryonic Stem Cell Research

Human embryos are human beings. "Respect for the dignity of the human being excludes all experimental manipulation or exploitation of the human embryo" (CRF 4b).

Recent scientific advances show that often medical treatments that researchers hope to develop from experimentation on embryonic stem cells can be developed by using adult stem cells instead. Adult stem cells can be obtained without doing harm to the adults from whom they come. Thus there is no valid medical argument in favor of using embryonic stem cells. And even if there were benefits to be had from such experiments, they would not justify destroying innocent embryonic humans.

4. Human Cloning

"Attempts . . . for obtaining a human being without any connection with sexuality through 'twin fission,' cloning, or parthenogenesis are to be considered contrary to the moral law, since they are in opposition to the dignity both of human procreation and of the conjugal union" (RHL I:6).

Human cloning also involves abortion because the "rejected" or "unsuccessful" embryonic clones are destroyed, yet each clone is a human being.

5. Homosexual "Marriage"

True marriage is the union of one man and one woman. Legal recognition of any other union as "marriage" undermines true marriage, and legal recognition of homosexual unions actually does homosexual persons a disfavor by encouraging them to persist in what is an objectively immoral arrangement.

"When legislation in favor of the recognition of homosexual unions is proposed for the first time in a legislative assembly, the Catholic lawmaker has a moral duty to express his opposition clearly and publicly and to vote against it. To vote in favor of a law so harmful to the common good is gravely immoral" (UHP 10).[/quote]

The two major candidates' positions on these non-negotiable issues:

Bush's position:
[url="http://www.ontheissues.org/George_W__Bush.htm#Abortion"]on Life Issues[/url]
[url="http://www.ontheissues.org/2004/George_W__Bush_Civil_Rights.htm#Gay_Rights"]On Homosexual "Marriage"[/url]

Kerry's position:
[url="http://www.ontheissues.org/John_Kerry.htm#Abortion"]on Life issues[/url]
[url="http://www.ontheissues.org/John_Kerry.htm#Civil_Rights"]on Homosexual "Marriage"[/url]

Clearly, Bush's position on these issues is more in line with the teaching of the Church than John Kerry's position.

[Iacobus]

[quote name='Colleen' date='Sep 3 2004, 10:19 PM'] He may not be the best, but he's a lot better than Kerry.

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/voters_guide.asp"]Voter's Guide put out by Catholic Answers[/url]



The two major candidates' positions on these non-negotiable issues:

Bush's position:
[url="http://www.ontheissues.org/George_W__Bush.htm#Abortion"]on Life Issues[/url]
[url="http://www.ontheissues.org/2004/George_W__Bush_Civil_Rights.htm#Gay_Rights"]On Homosexual "Marriage"[/url]

Kerry's position:
[url="http://www.ontheissues.org/John_Kerry.htm#Abortion"]on Life issues[/url]
[url="http://www.ontheissues.org/John_Kerry.htm#Civil_Rights"]on Homosexual "Marriage"[/url]

Clearly, Bush's position on these issues is more in line with the teaching of the Church than John Kerry's position. [/quote]
Note the either.

I think that Voters guide is kinda loaded. It doesn't sound anything like what the Bishops said. Come on the Bishops statement is only 75 pages people. Read what those with the power to teach say.

Bush isn't the best. Nor is Kerry. Some 3rd party guy is probly the best. So I pray for him to win. And prolbu will vote for him as well.

[Colleen]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Sep 3 2004, 10:22 PM'] Bush isn't the best. Nor is Kerry. Some 3rd party guy is probly the best. So I pray for him to win. And prolbu will vote for him as well. [/quote]
I agree that Bush is not the best candidate. But he's the best candidate with the chance to win.

[White Knight]

GWB is a Godly, steadfast man, who deserves to get relected, for guiding and protecting this country, with the LORD strengthing the president and protecting him.


Go Bush! 4 MORE YEARS!

[MorphRC]

Ill Pray.















he doesnt

[MorphRC]

4 LESS YEARS!!!

[White Knight]

lol, so you rather have a non catholic, church hating person be Our President Morph? that doesn't sound very good to us.

[Noel's angel]

I cannot pray for this cause im afraid, there are more important things for me to pray about instead of praying that some guy ive never met will be president of a country ive never been to

[Aloysius]

GW's speach at the Convention was AWESOME

seriously, John Kerry's got NOTHING! GW's plans are dope. he's gonna simplify the unnecesarily complicated tax system, work for the protection of marriage and of life in the womb, protect america, et cetera et cetera.

anyway, if it is a choice between bush and kerry, BUSH WINS, hands down. no faithful Catholic can vote for kerry as far as i'm concerned. you either vote for Bush or for a third-party candidate that's better.

this is not a sports game, this is a contest with real consequences for the country and the world. i will pray that George Bush wins.

anyway, with the war issue: John Kerry voted for the war and has said that he would vote for it again even knowing everything he knows now. everyone from russian intelligence to british intelligence to american intelligence to everyone that saw that intelligence (including John Kerry and John Edwards and George W. Bush) believed that Saddam Hussein had weapons. The only difference is that John Kerry will pull out our troops within like 6 months. why don't you ask the Pope what he thinks about that? the Pope very clearly supports bush's current actions in Iraq with a transfer of sovereignty and keeping troops to protect them there as long as possible.

anyway, John Kerry is a no-no for a sane rational Catholic. there is absolutely no reason to vote for him. he won't even be the best person economically! bush would make the tax refunds permanent (yeah, the rich people got the most tax cuts because they paid the most taxes in the first place, it's an unbiased REFUND, not handout) while Kerry will end up raising taxes.

anyway, i've never seen a good argument for voting for kerry.

[Aloysius]

btw, remember when Kerry said you don't get bounces from conventions in such close races? bush got a double-digit bounce from his!

[reelguy227]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Sep 5 2004, 09:08 AM'] 4 LESS YEARS!!! [/quote]
Why do you even care morph ? You live in Australia and shouldnt care about the goings on about our country.

[White Knight]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Sep 5 2004, 01:21 PM'] btw, remember when Kerry said you don't get bounces from conventions in such close races? bush got a double-digit bounce from his! [/quote]
LOL nice, and Yes its not a sports game, its a serious matter of life and death were talking about here, this countries next Presidential election determines the fate of our Countries Path. PRAY that GWB Wins, at all costs.

[MorphRC]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Sep 6 2004, 03:32 AM'] lol, so you rather have a non catholic, church hating person be Our President Morph? that doesn't sound very good to us. [/quote]
Meh. America is going downhill anyways, might as well go down quick