Opus Dei...

[flip]

yeah, i checked the links. got some info... that Q and A was real helpful...


and cam.... when i asked what you do at what levels, you answered "as defined by the prelature"... i am asking now "what is defined at the levels by the prelature"?


thanks

[Cam42]

[quote]We simply live the Life of Christ as defined by the prelature.[/quote]

It is our spirituality.

"All the faithful of the prelature commit themselves to seeking holiness of life and to carrying out apostolate according to the spirit of Opus Dei. This involves, principally, growing in spiritual life through prayer, sacrifice, and receiving the sacraments; using the opportunities that the prelature provides for acquiring a deep knowledge of the doctrine of the Church and the spirit of Opus Dei; and taking part in the task of evangelisation carried out by the prelature, according to the possibilities of each individual."

This is from the website, but it is the most complete definition. Making everyday a prayer, putting God into our daily lives, and living the life of Christ.

Think of it this way. Have you ever stood close to a mirror and looked at yourself? No matter how you try to move, short of turning your back, you cannot get away from that image of yourself. Now, substitute the image of yourself, with God. Short of turning your back, you keep God in front of yourself. That is what we strive to do.

In our lives, we put God in the forefront. We live normal lives, but with God in the center. We live normal lives, but we live normal, Catholic lives. We live normal, Catholic lives, but we live normal Catholic lives that are wholly guided by the spirituality of the Work.

This is no different than those who have a vocation to live out the life of Dominican Spirituality or Franciscan Spirituality, or Carmelite Spirituality. What is unique is the idea of the Prelature. What is that? The Second Vatican Council taught that all the baptized are called to follow Jesus Christ, by living according to the Gospel and making it known to others. The aim of Opus Dei is to contribute to that evangelizing mission of the Church. Opus Dei encourages Christians of all social classes to live consistently with their faith, in the middle of the ordinary circumstances of their lives, especially through the sanctification of their work.

I hope this answers your question. Again, there is nothing mystical or secretive about this. It is simply what it is. It is simply a vocation within the Catholic Church. It isn't for everyone and there is a discernment process.

Cam42

[HartfordWhalers]

[quote name='XIX' date='Sep 5 2004, 12:15 PM'] On the contrary, I find the virtue of chastity to be very illogical. I'm a 20-year old guyk, for crying out loud!

I still embrace it because I rely on faith, not mere logic. [/quote]
I suppose, then, you haven't been educated in what logic actually is or why one cannot have sex before marriage. Maybe if you examined the logic reasons, you would see that it IS logical. Everything the Church teaches is in line with logic, but Faith cannot be comprehended completely of logic, or else it would not be Faith.

[HartfordWhalers]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Sep 5 2004, 02:03 AM'] This discussion sounds vaguely familiar...

[/quote]
?? why is that?

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

It made up a 5 page or so thread a few weeks ago. I am glad I didn't get involved. I would just like to say that I've seen Protestants misquote the Pope for their own motives also.

[yiannii]

I have many friends involved with RC and OD and I haven't heard anything bad about either of the two.

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Sep 5 2004, 07:13 PM'] Excuse me?  We do not teach that at all.  We follow precisely what the Church teaches....CCC 2015 is a great example.  We strive to be more than the best Catholic that we can be, but we are also called to be a part of Opus Dei.

One simply does not join.  One is called, because to be part of Opus Dei is to be part of a personal prelature.  We are not a sodality or a simple parish organization.  It is a vocation to be part of the Work.

Have you ever heard a member of the Work say, "I am better than you?"  Have you ever heard a member of the Work say, "If you leave, you are committing a mortal sin?"  No, you have not.  We don't think that way.  We think that to live in the Work is to live in the Life of Christ.

It is a calling, it is a way of life.  It is not secret, it is not something mystical.  It is a vocation to a certain way of the Christian Life.

[/quote]

You don't have to get so defensive.

I was not attacking either organization. I was attacking the [b]attitudes[/b] of bad apples in the barrel that may hold erroneous elitist attitudes that I spoke of, and that exists in the entire Church. I say the same about Feenyites, I say the same about liberal Catholics that say "one religion is just as good as another."

Please don't distort what I say into an all out attack on an organization.

[Cam42]

[quote]You don't have to get so defensive.[/quote]

Actually, I do. It is misconception that causes books like the DaVinci code to be written and web sites like odan's to be created.

[quote]I was attacking the attitudes of bad apples in the barrel that may hold erroneous elitist attitudes that I spoke of, and that exists in the entire Church.[/quote]

No, actually your words suggest that you attack Opus Dei.

You said,

[quote]I am wary of people that hold any attitudes in some of these organizations (whether it's Opus Dei or what have you) that suggest it's not enough to just be the best Catholic you can be to receive salvation...[/quote]

My defense of the Work based on that context which you wrote. If that is not naming names, I don't know what is.....

Cam42

[Ash Wednesday]

I stated: "I am wary of [b]people that hold any attitudes in some of these organizations[/b] (whether it's Opus Dei or what have you)..."

and you stated as a response: "Excuse me? We do not teach that at all."

That to me is distortion. There is a difference between holding a certain distorted attitude about your faith and your organization, and what your organization actually teaches. If you believe that I am attacking Opus Dei, then that's your opinion, and your problem. Not mine. I have nothing against Opus Dei and what their goal is and what they stand for.

I do have a problem with people that practice spiritual abuse, which exists everywhere in the Church. People that have had bad experiences with their faith shouldn't be swept under the rug. I stated that I am wary and have trepidation about people that hold distorted attitudes about the faith, whether they exist in Opus Dei, Regnum Christi, or even my own Parish. I stated my personal opinion and how I stand from my own personal experiences with spiritual abuse, and I feel you distorted what I was saying.

Perhaps it's a misunderstanding.

[Ash Wednesday]

-_-

Edited September 8, 2004 by Ash Wednesday

[Oik]

Ash, you did seem a bit confusing and I thought the same. Cam you came down too hard on Ash. Love!

[Ash Wednesday]

Thanks Oik. You're a sweetie.

*huff*

I have nothing against Opus Dei, my apologies if it seems that way.

The very few, and perhaps rare bad experiences I've heard give me some trepidation that I could [b]personally[/b] relate to, because I have had some [b]very bad[/b] experiences in a previous relationship which had me involved in a cult-like "more Catholic than thou" mindset, and that was what I was expressing worries about. I was just voicing my concerns, which I would only voice with fellow faithful Catholics where it can be fairly discussed, and not the general public. It's not my intention to run smear campaigns and I did NOT state that THIS was what Opus Dei teaches. I would like to think that phatmass is the kind of place where you can voice concerns without being beaten over the head. I've been here for a long time, and up until now, this hasn't been the case.

Peace.

[Cam42]

I'm sorry if you have had bad experiences in the past. It is a horrible thing if you have...but the perception is that you were attacking Opus Dei.

[quote]There is a difference between holding a certain distorted attitude about your faith and your organization, and what your organization actually teaches.[/quote]

You are quite right of course, but if someone who is a member of the Work has a distorted view, he is counselled to correct that viewpoint or makes the decision, with the help of spiritual direction to leave.

Again, we don't hold any views that are distorted. We hold only those views that are in keeping with our spirituality and the Magisterium of the Church. We are certainly open to other viewpoints, but as a rule, we subscribe to our own. That is part of charism. That is part of spirituality. That is ascribing our spirituality. We would never ask a Dominican to become Opus Dei. This is no different than a Franciscan not asking a Norbertine to become Franciscan.

[quote]....I did NOT state that THIS was what Opus Dei teaches.[/quote]

No, but you did allude to the fact that some members may hold "elitest" attitudes. This is what we do not teach. This is what I was defending. This is not what Opus Dei teaches nor is it what members of the Work advocate. I have been involved with the work for almost 15 years and I have never once heard anything remotely close to what you have described from any member, clergy or laity.

------

Oik,

I am not standing idly by while "concerns" are openly voiced that can be construed one of 20 different ways. I will speak to those concerns with filial love and if need be filial correction. That is what I did.

Cam42

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote]...but the perception is that you were attacking Opus Dei.[/quote]

It was not a correct perception.

[quote]You are quite right of course, but if someone who is a member of the Work has a distorted view, he is counselled to correct that viewpoint or makes the decision, with the help of spiritual direction to leave.[/quote]

It would have been more helpful if you would have explained this more calmly in the first place, instead of jumping to histrionic "excuse me?" conclusions. I may have miscommunicated my concerns about elitism, but I did not take your response as being particularly mature, filial or charitable.