1 Cor 1:18

[HomeTeamFamily]

ok i was having another little "pick up the Bible and read" sessions and i started reading 1 corinthians and i came across this little verse and thought it was pretty good evidence against OSAS

"THe message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us WHO ARE BEING SAVED, it is the power of God"

i added the caps to emphasize that this indicates the future tense......being saved does not equal "have been saved" thus showing that salvation is something that must be worked for not a one time event, otherwise Peter would have structured his epistle differently and used the past tense for this little excerpt.......right?

[phatcatholic]

lanky, you are correct.

actually, the bible speaks of salvation in the PAST, PRESENT, and FUTURE TENSES. the mere presence of different tenses for salvation shows that it is not a once-in-a-lifetime event.

[b][u]I Have Been Saved (past event)[/u][/b]
[b]Rom. 8:24 [/b]- for in this hope we were saved (but, again, why "hope" if salvation is a certainty?)

[b]Eph. 2:5,8[/b] - for by grace you have been saved through faith.

[b]2 Tim. 1:9[/b] - He saved us and called us through grace and not by virtue of our own works outside of His grace.

[b]Titus 3:5[/b] - He saved us in virtue of His own mercy, and not by our deeds.


[u][b]I Am Being Saved (present event)[/b][/u]
[b]1 Cor. 1:18 [/b]- for the word of the cross is folly to those perishing, but for to us who are being saved, it is the power of God.

[b]2 Cor. 2:15 [/b]- for we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved. Salvation is a continual process.

[b]Phil. 2:12 [/b]- we are working out our salvation through fear and trembling. Salvation is an ongoing process.

[b]1 Peter 1:9[/b] - you obtain the salvation of your souls as the outcome of your faith. Working out our salvation in fear and trembling is a lifelong process.


[u][b]I Will Be Saved (future event)[/b][/u]
[b]Matt. 10:22, 24:13; Mark 13:13 [/b]- again, Jesus taught that we must endure to the very end to be saved. Salvation is a past, present and future event (not a one-time event at an altar call).

[b]Acts 15:11 [/b]- we believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus.

[b]Rom. 5:9-10 [/b]- since we are justified by His blood, we shall be saved.

[b]Rom. 13:11 [/b]- salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed.

[b]1 Cor. 3:15 [/b]- he will be saved, but only as through fire.

[b]1 Cor. 5:5[/b] - Paul commands the Church to deliver a man to satan, that he will be saved in the day of the Lord.

[b]2 Tim. 2:11-12 [/b]- if we endure, we shall also reign with Him. This requires endurance until the end of our lives.

[b]Heb. 9:28 [/b]- Jesus will appear a second time to save those who are eagerly waiting for Him.

James 5:15 - the sacrament of the sick will save the sick man and the Lord will raise him up.


from Scripture Catholic: [url="http://scripturecatholic.com/salvation.html"][i][b]Salvation[/b][/i][/url]

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[HomeTeamFamily]

so the past tenses are like times when the person speaking it or whatever is referring to people who were saved?

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='lankyswimmer' date='Aug 31 2004, 06:21 PM'] so the past tenses are like times when the person speaking it or whatever is referring to people who were saved? [/quote]
when used in the past tense, the speaker or author is referring to "salvation" that has already taken place. in the past tense, "salvation" is taken to mean "sanctification"--thus a time in the past in which a person was sanctified ("saved") by Jesus Christ.

[HomeTeamFamily]

cool.....why is it so hard for protestants to see that?

[Theoketos]

They take Romans 8 way out of context, and assume rightousness to mean something other then what St. Paul ment.

I checked the Latin and three versions of the English and they all say the same thing.

L Swimmer you are on the way to being a rock star apologist.

Did you know if you read the Bible for 15 minutes a day you could finish it in a year?

[HomeTeamFamily]

what if you are a slow reader?

[StColette]

[quote name='lankyswimmer' date='Aug 31 2004, 07:18 PM'] cool.....why is it so hard for protestants to see that? [/quote]
hehe they have horse blinders on maybe ? j/k that was bad of me

They probably don't see it because they have been taught a different interpretation from their ministers. That's what makes debating with them so difficult b/c their interpretation of Scripture can be very misconstrude. What looks like plain and simple to us doesn't to them.

[HomeTeamFamily]

grrrrrr

[StColette]

If 1 Cor 1:18 is hard for them to understand Luke 1:30 is totally out of the question for them to understand.

[Theoketos]

[quote name='lankyswimmer' date='Aug 31 2004, 07:57 PM'] what if you are a slow reader? [/quote]
yeah, espcially if you are a slow reader.

Ave Maria,

James III

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='lankyswimmer' date='Aug 31 2004, 08:18 PM'] cool.....why is it so hard for protestants to see that? [/quote]
I can't talk for all Protestants, and I'd say I'm different from most of them, anyway. For one, I'm converting to Catholicism For another, I never just listened to what a minister told me about a verse, but read it in context. If you get past the semantics, though, a lot of Protestants would agree with you entirely, it's just that different terms are used. Not all Protestants view salvation as one event that happened in the past and isn't continually happening. Again, I'm not sure my views on this align with a lot of Protestants, but I know some of them that agree completely with the Catholic view once you explain to them