Catholic Faction?

[jasJis]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Sep 23 2004, 10:22 AM'] I still wonder if those are refering to people who wanted to become christian water baptized explicitly.

But regardless, it is still important if not imperative to find more context for the days of the controversial texts. Just in case the controversials flat out contradict a unanimous past. Or more likely when the doctrine could have been defined one way or the other if people had differing opinions. [/quote]


It depends upon what the definition of "is" is.

[DominaNostra]

Could someone maybe address Pope Gregory XVI's comments on EENS and the strict interpretation because he asserts the strict interpretation absolutely in the Encyclical I quoted at the top of page 5 of this thread. Here it is again:

“Finally some of these misguided people attempt to persuade themselves and others that men are not saved only in the Catholic religion, but that even heretics may attain eternal life… You know how zealously Our predecessors taught that article of faith which these dare to deny, namely the necessity of the Catholic faith and of unity for salvation… Omitting other appropriate passages which are almost numberless in the writings of the Fathers, We shall praise St. Gregory the Great who expressly testifies that this is indeed the teaching of the Catholic Church. He says: ‘The holy universal Church teaches that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her and asserts that all who are outside of her will not be saved.’ Official acts of the Church proclaim the same dogma. Thus, in the decree on faith which Innocent III published with the synod of Lateran IV, these things are written: ‘There is one universal Church of all the faithful outside of which no one is saved.’ Finally the same dogma is also expressly mentioned in the profession of faith proposed by the Apostolic See, not only that which all Latin churches use, but also that which… other Eastern Catholics use. We did not mention these selected testimonies because We thought you were ignorant of that article of faith and in need of Our instruction. Far be it from Us to have such an absurd and insulting suspicion about you. But We are so concerned about this serious and well known dogma, which has been attacked with such remarkable audacity, that We could not restrain Our pen from reinforcing this truth with many testimonies.” cf., [i]Summo Iugiter Studio[/i], 1832.

By the way, it is interesting to note that this is the same Encyclical in which he condemns mixed marriages (N.B., a mixed marriage, in the Catholic sense, is a marriage between a Catholic and a non-Catholic).

[Oik]

Domina, all I can say is that this thread is exhusted. God alone judges men, so, I think, we, as Catholics, should be careful who we implictedly condemn. Also, I do not believe that what I have said con flicts with the soucres and such you have listed through out this post. I'm Catholic and I believe what the church teaches. I daily pursue faithfulness to the Church, that is my intent.

(Read: I'm not a theologian yet, so I'm not really an authority.)

Edited September 24, 2004 by Oik

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='DominaNostra' date='Sep 24 2004, 02:13 AM'] Could someone maybe address Pope Gregory XVI's comments on EENS and the strict interpretation because he asserts the strict interpretation absolutely in the Encyclical I quoted at the top of page 5 of this thread. Here it is again:

“Finally some of these misguided people attempt to persuade themselves and others that men are not saved only in the Catholic religion, but that even heretics may attain eternal life… You know how zealously Our predecessors taught that article of faith which these dare to deny, namely the necessity of the Catholic faith and of unity for salvation… Omitting other appropriate passages which are almost numberless in the writings of the Fathers, We shall praise St. Gregory the Great who expressly testifies that this is indeed the teaching of the Catholic Church. He says: ‘The holy universal Church teaches that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her and asserts that all who are outside of her will not be saved.’ Official acts of the Church proclaim the same dogma. Thus, in the decree on faith which Innocent III published with the synod of Lateran IV, these things are written: ‘There is one universal Church of all the faithful outside of which no one is saved.’ Finally the same dogma is also expressly mentioned in the profession of faith proposed by the Apostolic See, not only that which all Latin churches use, but also that which… other Eastern Catholics use. We did not mention these selected testimonies because We thought you were ignorant of that article of faith and in need of Our instruction. Far be it from Us to have such an absurd and insulting suspicion about you. But We are so concerned about this serious and well known dogma, which has been attacked with such remarkable audacity, that We could not restrain Our pen from reinforcing this truth with many testimonies.” cf., [i]Summo Iugiter Studio[/i], 1832.

By the way, it is interesting to note that this is the same Encyclical in which he condemns mixed marriages (N.B., a mixed marriage, in the Catholic sense, is a marriage between a Catholic and a non-Catholic). [/quote]
We have discussed already that our understanding of dogma and doctrine increases over time.
Therefore we use the CURRENT catechism with reflects our CURRRENT understanding of Catholic teaching from the Living Magisterium.

[jasJis]

It's been explicitly explained to you, but you obstinately refuse to consider or accept the full teaching of the Church.

A Heretic knows better and refuses to follow. It is the same as the difference between venial and mortal sins.

All Grace is from God/Jesus/Holy Spirit.

God/Jesus/Holy Spirit is the Head/Source/Leader/Participant of the Church on Earth, which is the Catholic Church.

No Grace on Earth exists outside the Catholic Church.

Any rejection of Grace is a sin.

Rejection of Grace (sin) can be venial or mortal, depending upon the seriousness AND our understanding AND our ability to freely direct our will. Read the Catechism and understand the heirarchy of sins and understand the heirarchy of rejection of Grace.

Understand that Ignorance does not condemn and also does not save. The culpability of sins committed from Ignorance depends upon our responsibility/culpability for the Ignorance. Are we Ignorant from willfull apathy, lack of proper representation from others, willfull grave sin of others to misrepresent, human limitations for intelligence, improper guidance from parents, etc.

All persons are given the opportunity to accept or reject Salvific Grace. We all have to make the choice and are given the choice. How we are graced with that choice and how we understand and respond is perfectly and completely known and understood by God. Jesus categorically denies the assumption that anyperson, living or dead, did not have this choice and we are required to make that choice. Non are created predestined to condemnation, but many are created with God's foreknowledge they will reject Him and be condemned.

Read Romans 10 and 11 and understand the Catholic's role in the world today.

[dairygirl4u2c]

bump...
in case anyone wants a reference to a couple past threads on this topic