Strong Opposition

[ironmonk]

Sometimes, strong opposition is needed... some do not realize that it is charitable to give the strong opposition and wrongfully call it uncharitable.

When there is a lack of strong opposition the person in error might continue to believe the matter not to be grave when it really is, and sometimes, even the venial matters can lead to grave matters. The person in error may consider the point to be taken liberally and begin to rationalize the issue until not only have they traveled into heresy but now are bordering on apostasy.

Strong opposition after time can open the persons mind and show the error of their ways. For the person who loves the Lord will love truth. The person who loves the Lord will want to be right and will accept when wrong so to change and be right with God. The person who loves the Lord will more than likely think deeply on the matter instead of brushing it off as an accepted theological difference when strong opposition is given.

In the beginning of a dialog with someone new, one should never provide strong opposition, a softer approach is always needed with someone new. Only after time and careful observation of the person and learning something about the person, and taking into account general human nature, should the dialog's message begin to harden to stress the importance of the matter, to the point of strong opposition.

On this very board we have seen the above scenario work. Some have drifted away, soft turned to strong opposition, conflict arose, and they came back.... with some seeds where planted and we may never see the fruit from those seeds... but those who love Christ will change for Christ. Some will only see the errors of the path that they are on, only after much time, and strong opposition that will cause internal conflict, and many times pain.... but with pain, comes growth.

All for the greater glory of God.

...Just a thought.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[MichaelFilo]

I can agree on this in that you are right about strong opposition. This however, doesn't validate your behavior.

God bless,

Mikey

[jmjtina]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Aug 29 2004, 01:25 PM'] I can agree on this in that you are right about strong opposition. This however, doesn't validate your behavior.

God bless,

Mikey [/quote]
You do the same thing Mikey.....only monk puts everything in context, states what and why, whereas sometimes you assume ppl understand exactly what you are saying and what context, monk also puts things like items along with the church's actual teachings and scripture AND saint quotes.....


His "strong opposition" is usually truth, but presented in context (which would explain the looooooong posts!)

[MichaelFilo]

I don't make posts denouncing Icthus (who I, with all honesty, do not favor over Ironmonk, who is very smart, and has my utmost respect) others claims as former Catholics. Icthus showed us he was trying to defend the Faith, by posting links to another forum.

I don't know what you mean by doing the same thing. Strong opposition is justified behavior. I practice it liberally. That maybe what you mean.

God bless,

Mikey

[littleflower+JMJ]

she was probably reading the music lounge hehe since she reads over my shoulder alot

[Aloysius]

you know, i don't find ironmonk's suspicious completely unreasonable.

why? even when ICTHUS said he was Catholic he would post stuff about having dreams where the Catholic Church was the whore of babylon, and all sorts of stuff. and now he has come back and claimed all sorts of stuff that show a lack of understanding of the Catholic Church.

if he was Catholic, he did not understand the teachings of the Catholic Church in the slightest.

it's very plausible to me that ICTHUS was either never Catholic, or an already protestantized Catholic.

[MagiDragon]

*nods* ironmonk, i agree wholeheartedly with your assessment.

[quote]The purpose of all wars, is peace.

~Saint Augustine[/quote]
The same can be said for arguments: The purpose of all arguments, is agreement. Therefore we shouldn't shy from argumentation solely because it is argumentative, nor from war because it causes strife.

(Out of curiosity, does anyone know what the context was for this quote? My history is fuzzy for that time period . . . was there a major war that specifically triggered this quote?)

Peace,
Joe

[ironmonk]

[quote name='MagiDragon' date='Aug 29 2004, 05:33 PM'] (Out of curiosity, does anyone know what the context was for this quote?  My history is fuzzy for that time period . . . was there a major war that specifically triggered this quote?)
[/quote]
Thanks all.


I could not find this quote from St. Augustine in any of his writings. I searched them all. I even searched online but none of the listings mentioned the writing that it came from. One site showed the quote coming from Aristotle, but no mention of which writing it came from.

If anyone else can find it, I would be interested to see it also.

I've got all of the writings from the ECF in two different sets of electronic format. All I need is a title from which the quote came.

.....


Michael, I understand your point, but I do believe my questions are quite valid given the evidence. When someone claims to be Catholic, and evidence points to otherwise, then it must be brought into the light. I never lied about anything dealing with him. I asked questions to verify my theory or to correct it.... I am concerned with truth; if I am found to be wrong, great then I learn because afterward I am corrected... I win if I'm proven wrong, and I win if I'm proven right... because I would be in the truth of the matter.

If someone is Catholic and wants to leave the Church, they should do it for the right reasons... sometimes, strong opposition is needed to point out the obvious. I believe this was one of those times.... given the evidence posted on the board, and private dialogs that I have had with him over the past year.


God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited August 29, 2004 by ironmonk

[MC Just]

you know me, i agree, it all makes perfect sense..

[MagiDragon]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Aug 29 2004, 04:35 PM']I could not find this quote from St. Augustine in any of his writings. I searched them all. I even searched online but none of the listings mentioned the writing that it came from.  One site showed the quote coming from Aristotle, but no mention of which writing it came from.[/quote]
hmmm . . . very odd. i found a lot of sites that claim Augustine said it, but they don't site it:

[url="http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/220"]quote page 1[/url]
[url="http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/s/saintaugus110214.html"]quote page 2[/url]
[url="http://www.military-quotes.com/database/a.htm"]quote page 3[/url]
[url="http://www.saidwhat.co.uk/quotes/s/saint_augustine_2651.php?id=2651&s=0&np=3"]quote page 4[/url]

oh well. even if he didn't say it, i still think the saying itself rings true. It could be one of those 'net propagated legends. *shrugs* I certainly didn't mean to mislead anyone if this quote turns out not to be his.

Peace,
Joe

[Good Friday]

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.