Divorce

[KatFromSVDP]

Hey! Ok, so my parents got divorced when I was going into 2nd grade. So about 8 years ago. Well, they're both Christian - my mom's Catholic and my dad's Lutheran. My dad just recently told me one of the reasons he has kind of stopped going to church since then is because the Catholic church told him they wouldn't let him take communion now that he and my mom were divorced. I realize that the Bible says divorce is bad and what-not. And I respect the Bible. I guess I'm just confused as to why it's bad. They got a divorce because they stopped loving eachother. They're still close friends. Have they commited a bad sin? I don't know.. I'm just confused so if ya'll could help me with any of this, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

Love,
Kat

[Cure of Ars]

I would recommend that you read everything the Catechism has to say about marriage because it is just awesome. The basic answer is that Marriage is a sacrament that is like the bond that exists between Christ and His Church. Christ gave everything out of love to his bride the Church. When I got married I made a vow to Christ, my wife, my community, and myself that I would give to my wife like Christ did the Church. This vow is not something that you can just walk away from and Christ says that if you do that you are committing adultery. Some things are too sacred and important to compromise with and the Church does not have the power to separate what God has put together. Here are some quotes from the Catechism but I would read everything it has to say on marriage.


[quote]
[b]The marriage bond [/b]

[b]1639[/b] The consent by which the spouses mutually give and receive one another is sealed by God himself.143 From their covenant arises "an institution, confirmed by the divine law, . . . even in the eyes of society."144 The covenant between the spouses is integrated into God's covenant with man: "Authentic married love is caught up into divine love."145

[b]1640[/b] Thus the marriage bond has been established by God himself in such a way that a marriage concluded and consummated between baptized persons can never be dissolved. This bond, which results from the free human act of the spouses and their consummation of the marriage, is a reality, henceforth irrevocable, and gives rise to a covenant guaranteed by God's fidelity. The Church does not have the power to contravene this disposition of divine wisdom.146

[b]1649[/b] Yet there are some situations in which living together becomes practically impossible for a variety of reasons. In such cases the Church permits the physical separation of the couple and their living apart. The spouses do not cease to be husband and wife before God and so are not free to contract a new union. In this difficult situation, the best solution would be, if possible, reconciliation. The Christian community is called to help these persons live out their situation in a Christian manner and in fidelity to their marriage bond which remains indissoluble.159

[b]1650[/b] Today there are numerous Catholics in many countries who have recourse to civil divorce and contract new civil unions. In fidelity to the words of Jesus Christ - "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery"160 the Church maintains that a new union cannot be recognized as valid, if the first marriage was. If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God's law. Consequently, they cannot receive Eucharistic communion as long as this situation persists. For the same reason, they cannot exercise certain ecclesial responsibilities. Reconciliation through the sacrament of Penance can be granted only to those who have repented for having violated the sign of the covenant and of fidelity to Christ, and who are committed to living in complete continence.

[b]1651[/b] Toward Christians who live in this situation, and who often keep the faith and desire to bring up their children in a Christian manner, priests and the whole community must manifest an attentive solicitude, so that they do not consider themselves separated from the Church, in whose life they can and must participate as baptized persons:
They should be encouraged to listen to the Word of God, to attend the Sacrifice of the Mass, to persevere in prayer, to contribute to works of charity and to community efforts for justice, to bring up their children in the Christian faith, to cultivate the spirit and practice of penance and thus implore, day by day, God's grace.161

[/quote]

[url="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a7.htm"]http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a7.htm[/url]

Edited August 29, 2004 by Cure of Ars

[Dave]

Kat, you said your dad is Lutheran ... that would mean he wouldn't be able to receive Holy Communion in the Catholic Church anyway -- Holy Communion in the Catholic Church is only for Catholics in the state of grace.

Also, a person would be denied Communion if they divorced AND remarried. THAT would be adultery -- an ongoing state of adultery. Kat didn't tell us that her parents had remarried. However, to divorce without a serious reason, while it wouldn't be adultery, would also be a mortal sin. But like all mortal sins, a person can't receive Holy Communion until they've repented via sacramental confession. I don't know if proper repentance for a divorce for insufficient reasons would include trying to return to your spouse, though.

[KatFromSVDP]

Thanks you guys for the help! My parents both got remarried to different people.. But my mom still receives communion at church.. oh well I do want to say that I don't believe in divorce. I was just asking because I love my parents and want to see them in heaven with me! Thanks for the help though!

[phatcatholic]

ok, i was reading the [url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_14091994_rec-holy-comm-by-divorced_en.html"][i][b]Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church Concerning the Reception of Holy Communion by the Divorced and Remarried Members of the Faithful[/b][/i][/url] by the CDF, and i was a little confused by these two paragraphs, particularly the second one:[list]
[*]This norm is not at all a punishment or a discrimination against the divorced and remarried, but rather expresses an objective situation that of itself renders impossible the reception of Holy Communion: "They are unable to be admitted thereto from the fact that their state and condition of life objectively contradict that union of love between Christ and his Church which is signified and effected by the Eucharist. Besides this, there is another special pastoral reason: if these people were admitted to the Eucharist, the faithful would be led into error and confusion regarding the Church's teaching about the indissolubility of marriage"(7).

The faithful who persist in such a situation may receive Holy Communion only after obtaining sacramental absolution, which may be given only "to those who, repenting of having broken the sign of the Covenant and of fidelity to Christ, are sincerely ready to undertake a way of life that is no longer in contradiction to the indissolubility of marriage. This means, in practice, that when for serious reasons, for example, for the children's upbringing, a man and a woman cannot satisfy [b]the obligation to separate[/b] ([b]?[/b]), they 'take on themselves the duty to live in complete continence, that is, by abstinence from the acts proper to married couples'"(8). In such a case they may receive Holy Communion as long as they respect the obligation to avoid giving scandal.
[/list]i don't understand what this "obligation to separate" is. i thought the obligation was to never separate. this also sounds like one can receive Communion after getting a divorce if that person goes to confession and never has sex again. is this what the document is saying? i have never heard of that before.....

the whole document is actually somewhat confusing. anyone have any answers?

thanks,
nick

[Aloysius]

according to the Catholic Church, your dad is still married to his "ex" wife.

if he were to get an annullment, it would be considered that he had never been married to his ex "wife". for that, they must provide evidence that the marriage was never valid in the first place.

once you're married, your married, no looking back (unless the marriage is unlawful, meaning it was never really a marriage)

likewise, your mom is still married to her "ex" husband.

because your dad is married to another woman and your mom is married to another man, they are thus committing adultery by being "married" to each other, and that is why they cannot receive communion (until they repent of their adultery and stop committing it, i.e. stop being "married")

so it's not like, oh they committed this one sin years ago and so no communion for them, it's that they continually commit the sin of adultery which is gravely immoral.

[b]phatcatholic[/b]: the "obligation to seperate" means that the two people who are re"married" are obliged to seperate because they are in reality married to to other people. what the letter is saying, is that KatFromSVDP's parents could remain living in the same house to raise their children, they should just sleep in seperate beds if you know what i mean.

[phatcatholic]

ohhhhh, gotcha!

[track2004]

I have another question about annulments. What do you have to do to get one? My parents were married for 18 years and then they got one. I think thats carp. And what does the Church think about two people being married outside the Church, like just civilly?

[Aloysius]

i don't quite know, you'd have to ask a canonical judge that oversees the annulment trial things or just a canon lawyer i guess.

[MagiDragon]

[quote name='KatFromSVDP' date='Aug 29 2004, 02:43 PM']I was just asking because I love my parents and want to see them in heaven with me![/quote]
hey, if they've raised someone with good moral convictions in today's world, they've done *something* right! I'll pray for them . . . and you.

Good luck . . . hmmm . . . it's funny that i say that . . . I don't believe in luck . . . only Divine Providence. (Yes, that's right, the coin you just flipped was *meant* to come up tails!)

Peace,
Joe

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='track2004' date='Aug 29 2004, 04:10 PM'] I have another question about annulments. What do you have to do to get one? My parents were married for 18 years and then they got one. I think thats carp. [/quote]
i don't exactly know how the annulment process works, but i have alot of articles on the subject. i feel pretty sure they will help:

[b]Annulment[/b]
--[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ150.HTM"]Annulment vs. Divorce[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Homiletic/11-96/8/8.html"]Annulments in America[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARRIAGE/MARANCOM.TXT"]Marriage, Annulment, and the Quest for Lasting Commitment[/url]
--[url="http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/annulments.htm"]FAQ on Annulments[/url]
--[url="http://www.cin.org/users/james/questions/q011.htm"]An Annulment After Years of Marriage[/url]
--[url="http://www.cin.org/users/james/questions/q013.htm"]Examples of When Marriage Can Be Annuled[/url]
--[url="http://www.cin.org/users/james/questions/q014.htm"]Is the Catholic Church "Hung Up" About Annulments?[/url]
--[url="http://catholiceducation.org/articles/marriage/mf0044.html"]Do I Need An Annulment?[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Homiletic/May1999/marriage.html"]An Uncommon Policy Regarding Marriage[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARRIAGE/ANNUL.TXT"]Annulment: Roots of a Growing Problem[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/EXPLAIN.htm"]Explaining An Annulment[/url]
--[url="http://www.godspy.com/reviews/The-Sacrament-of-Matrimony.cfm"]Entrance Into the Church and Annulment[/url]

[quote]And what does the Church think about two people being married outside the Church, like just civilly?[/quote]
they don't recognize it as a sacramental union, for God is not evoked and the Church is not there to bear witness to the commitment the couple has made. thus, a civil union does not annul a previous marriage. if a person gets married in the courts after being married years before sacramentally, its only the sacramental marriage the Church recognizes. as far as the Church is concerned, the civil "marriage" never took place.