CatholicCrusader Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 (edited) I have seen many Catholics greeting non-Catholics in a manner of "God bless", "peace to you", "God speed", and the like. How are we to act regarding heretics? "Whosoever revolteth, and continueth not in the doctrine of Christ, [b]hath not God[/b]. He that continueth in the doctrine, the same hath both the Father and the Son. If any man come to you, [i]and bring not this doctrine[/i], [b]receive him not[/b] into the house [b][i]nor say to him, God speed you[/i][/b]." II St. John I. 9 & 10 Shall we follow the Word of God under the direction of the Blessed Apostle John or would we rather follow the broad way of false ecumenism and acceptance of heresy and heretics? Ecclesiasticus xii. 3: "for the Highest hateth sinners." Edited August 28, 2004 by CatholicCrusader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Fine then, since I consider all Roman Catholics heretics, I won't greet them with the same courtesy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCrusader Posted August 28, 2004 Author Share Posted August 28, 2004 ... at least you're being logical... you're still wrong, though. Moreover, I don't think you saying "God bless" will make it true anyway... the prayer/blessing of a non-Catholic is a blasphemy according to the Catechism of the Council of Trent: in the Church alone is found true sacrfifice and true worship that is AT ALL acceptable to God. Basically, worship and sacrifice are in vain (frustra) outside the Church. What is using God's Name in vain: blasphemy. You can read more if you like by St. Thomas Aquinas on blasphemy as the worst of all sins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Prohibited Content: Personal Attacks- a post or comment that has nothing to do with the topic, but is specifically meant to upset or criticize another person or group of people. This includes, but is not limited to, calling people "heretics" (used in a derogatory manner), "democrooks", etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 I absolutely cannot believe this thread!!! Wishing God's blessings on other people (of whatever religion) is not only not wrong, but, I believe, the only Christian attitude to have towards others. Catholics should wish God's blessings on other people (which would include, in the case of heretics, etc., their finding the truth of the Faith, and thus being able to obtain God's happiness in heaven!) Are we supposed to curse or wish damnation on others? That would be evil! Judge not, lest ye be judged! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 It's all well and good to root for the home team and be unshakeable...but you attract more flies with honey than vinegar. We can certainly ask God to bless protestants, if only to ask Him to shed a little light on things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP2Iloveyou Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 A word of advice, which I said in another thread. The term "heretic" requires many things to be present, cannonicly. It is a very, VERY serious charge. It is not something to be thrown around lightly. One also must disseminate between formal and material heresies/heretics. My rector at the seminary I go to, a very holy, orthodox man who loves the Pope and everything the Church teaches, told us when some of us were throwing that term around that for starters, we didn't know what we were talking about and that it can be sinful, perhaps even mortally sinful. Please, PLEASE, do not label someone a heretic unless you fully know what you are talking about. This is a most serious charge which even the Pope refrains from using. And yes, we can and should wish God's blessings on non-Catholics. Many of them by virtue of their baptism are our brothers and sisters in Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 [quote]"Whosoever revolteth, and continueth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that continueth in the doctrine, the same hath both the Father and the Son. If any man come to you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him, God speed you." II St. John I. 9 & 10[/quote] That is correct. Catholics should not say God's speed, or God Bless you [some translations], to non-catholics. Thats as straight forward as james 2:17 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Wrong, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 well that would be rude. I don't make it a habit to say God Bless you anyway. I usually tell a person I'll pray for them. However, I think that this verse could be meant as a warning about men who come bearing other religions with the intent to convert. I usually show them the door pretty quick and I don't wish them luck. And you know, in some places Catholicism is a minority. In Virginia we're 3% of the population. We need to get along, and you can't do that by being 'above' other people. Let's just remember that the only way we'll get the Protestants back (optimal situation) is to be inviting and open. Without compromising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picchick Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 If someone where to say to another person, "God's curse upon you." I think that the person would get pretty upset. This is also a sin by the way. However, I don't see anything wrong with wishing God's Blessing upon anyone. I mean you need to mean it of course. You can't say, "I am going to say God Bless to get this person mad." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 CatholicCrusader, to fully grasp the verse, one must not take it for it's face value, but instead, take it apart to get a sense of what it means. Please realize, I have no intention of us argueing over what it means, because we are not Protestants, and we do not believe that it is possible to understand Scripture on our own. For this reason, let us not go to far with this, so if you reply, directly about the passage, please note I will drop it, even if I WANT to. [quote]Whosoever revolteth, and continueth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that continueth in the doctrine, the same hath both the Father and the Son. If any man come to you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him, God speed you.[/quote] At first, this may be read as if it says, let no one who doesn't follow Christ correctly, has not God, and so do not accept them in. However, the very start says, "Whosoever revolteth, and continueth". If they know not the doctrine of Christ, or have been polluted by such heresy as Protestantism, then they aren't neccessarly revolting. The same would apply to non-Christians, for they also are not revolting against the doctrine of Christ, since they do not know the doctrine of Christ. This very passage seems to suggest against those who have revolted and continue to revolt against the doctrine of Christ. It maybe good to realize that this would make no sense at all, to suggest Protestants who don't know the Truth, or have a hard time accepting it because of how they were brought up, to not have God. They are baptized with water and the Spirit, even if illicitly, it IS valid. So, they have God. CatholicCrusader, open your heart to love, as I, a lover of the old, and rejecter of heresy, much like yourself, know that often times, in these things, we forget to love. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Ok I got a better translation of the verse. Than the one given: [b]9[/b] Anyone who is so "progressive" as not to remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God; whoever remains in the teaching has the Father and the Son. [b]10[/b] If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him in your house or even greet him; [b]11[/b] for whoever greets him shares in his evil works. [b]7 [9][/b] Anyone who is so "progressive": literally, "Anyone who goes ahead." Some gnostic groups held the doctrine of the Christ come in the flesh to be a first step in belief, which the more advanced and spiritual believer surpassed and abandoned in his knowledge of the spiritual Christ. The author affirms that fellowship with God may be gained only by holding to the complete doctrine of Jesus Christ (1 John 2:22-23; 4:2; 5:5-6). [b]8 [10-11][/b] At this time false teachers were considered so dangerous and divisive as to be shunned completely. From this description they seem to be wandering preachers. We see here a natural suspicion of early Christians concerning such itinerants and can envisage the problems faced by missionaries such as those mentioned in 3 John 1:10. [url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/2john/2john.htm#foot7"]http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/2john/2john.htm#foot7[/url] ----------- Its a warning against false preachers, here and for Catholics this would apply to non-catholics. The "God speed you" seems to be an off translation, I checked this with the [i]NJBC[/i], and that does not have this translation either. ----------- So my comment before is wrong, since the translation is off. Apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 I have my Miraculous Medal and my Brown Scapular blessed. If they can be blessed why not a human person? I am just wondering what people have to say about that. In other words, to those who don't think heretics should be blessed: what could justify blessing an inanimate object, even a holy one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Your logical is shaky. Heretics are against God's teaching, objects aren't. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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