AndreaMercer Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 No way. I was watching this show on the Discovery channel the other day about JPII and all the feminist sisters who publicly asked him to allow the ordination of women. I was sick to my stomach watching these women bash our holy father because he can't change what God has chosen for us. There is no trust in God's will for our church...and they make us look so bad on those sorts of shows. I am ashamed for those women... Don't even get me started on their bashing JPII about birth control... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiciblanche Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 I agree with Al that if the circumstances were like those of Arianism I'd pull a St. Athanasius-style revolt... because that's insane. Boy, do we need humility! For the sake of His Sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! Our Mother, you who are so humble, pray for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 [quote name='voiciblanche' date='Aug 29 2004, 12:01 AM'] I agree with Al that if the circumstances were like those of Arianism I'd pull a St. Athanasius-style revolt... because that's insane. Boy, do we need humility! For the sake of His Sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! Our Mother, you who are so humble, pray for us! [/quote] AMEN!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewmeister2 Posted August 29, 2004 Author Share Posted August 29, 2004 Actually, I was just reasearching this, there have only been two times in recent times the Church has been infallible: the doctrine on Immaculate Conception, and the Assumption. These, of course, have nothing to do with female priests. So I guess that it isn't an infallible document. God bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 the church has never ordained women, and it has taught that it simply doesn't have the authority to do so. the pope does not need to speak ex cathedra (as with the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption) to speak with authority. Quite literally the example of Christ is the basis for the reservation of the priesthood to men. Drew are you playing devil's advocate here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0lar_bear Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 [quote name='drewmeister2' date='Aug 29 2004, 06:37 PM'] Actually, I was just reasearching this, there have only been two times in recent times the Church has been infallible: the doctrine on Immaculate Conception, and the Assumption. These, of course, have nothing to do with female priests. So I guess that it isn't an infallible document. God bless! [/quote] Those aren't the only two infallible statements, just the only two [i]ex cathredra[/i] statements (i.e. infallible statements made by the extraordinary magisterium of the Pope. A statement doesn't have to be [i]ex cathredra[/i] to be infallible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 The Catechism of the Catholic Church sets it out clearly, quoting the decree Inter insigniores: Only a baptized man (vir) receives sacred ordination. The Lord Jesus chose men (viri) to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry. The college of bishops, with whom the priests are united in the priesthood, makes the college of the twelve an ever-present and ever-active reality until Christ’s return. The Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord Himself. For this reason the ordination of women is not possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewmeister2 Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 I think some people may be confusing the reason of this post. I am simply interested in what people have to say on this issue. While I do not support the issue of women becoming priests, there is so much talk about it, and I have heard also from many people that in the future there may be female priests, so many say it will happen. I was only curious what people had to say on the issue. I know what the Church teaches on this, but I just wanted to hear what others had to say. I find it interesting that I have heard many people say the opposite of how this poll has been going. Again, I don't support it. Just curious to see how people would vote. God bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 your research is wrong. the Catholic Church is infallible in matters of faith and morals. period. the Pope can make it extraordinarily clear that he is speaking infallibly, this has happened twice. but the Pope is infallible on faith or morals when he speaks from his position as successor to St. Peter. also: when all the bishops together with the bishop of Rome (the Pope) define a matter of faith or morals in a Council of the Church it is infallible. also: when the Catholic Church consistently teaches by means of what would be considered fallible methods of teaching, the teaching gains infallibility so long as it is consistently upheld by the Ordinary Universal Magisterium. this is all defined in the first and second Vatican Councils. "Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself,[b] in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren[/b][i]here he says he specifically says he is speaking as successor to St. Peter[/i] (cf. Luke 22:32)[b] I declare[/b] that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful." it's a matter of faith. it's spoken as successor to St. Peter. It is guarded from error by the Holy Spirit. thus: it is infallible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 fyi: i wouldn't do your research on what is infallible on dissenting websites like womenpriests.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagiDragon Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 [quote name='drewmeister2' date='Aug 29 2004, 09:20 PM']Again, I don't support it. Just curious to see how people would vote. God bless![/quote] the trouble with your poll is that it assumes the Church is fallible. If there is ever a woman priest it disproves the Church's infallibility. If the Church's infallibility is disproved, then the Church will crumble. Even if there *was* a woman that became a "valid" priest, this would invalidate the Church and the woman would only be a priest for the last few weeks of the Church's existence. Luckily, we know that the Church *IS* infallible, so we don't have to worry about it. Polls on this are irrelevant, they only show that some people disagree with the Truth. Peace, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 drewmeister2, if you would like to debate this issue or play "devil's advocate" i suggest creating a thread in the Debate Board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cure of Ars Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Straight from the reference section if anyone is interested in reading up on this subject. [b]The Ordination of Women[/b] --[url="http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft9304/novak.html"]Women, Ordination, and Angels[/url] --[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=4750"]Some Scriptural Arguments for an All-Male Priesthood[/url] --[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ116.HTM"]Gender Roles, Male Priests, Equality, and Feminism[/url] --[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ183.HTM"]Women Teachers in the Church[/url] --[url="http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/priest.htm"]The Priesthood Debate[/url] --[url="http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/w-ordination.htm"]Women's Ordination: It's Infallible[/url] --[url="http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Faith/0506-96/article4.html"]The Male Priesthood: An Argument from Sacred Tradition[/url] --[url="http://members.tripod.com/~frjoe/luis1.htm"]Catholic Priestesses: A Response to Arguments for Women Priests[/url] --[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=5152"]Declaration on the Admission of Women to the Ministerial Priesthood (Inter insigniores)[/url] --[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=79"]Apostolic Letter on Reserving Priestly Ordination to Men Alone[/url] --[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=5189"]Concerning the Reply of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on the Teaching Contained in the Apostolic Letter "Ordinatio Sacerdotalis"[/url] --[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=231"]Some Observations Concerning the Catholic Theological Society of America Report on Tradition and the Ordination of Women[/url] --[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/DOCTRINE/ANGLDIFF.TXT"]Authoritatively No Authority to Ordain Women[/url] --[url="http://www.domestic-church.com/CONTENT.DCC/19990501/ARTICLES/prst_authority.htm"]Male Priesthood[/url] --[url="http://www.catholicherald.com/saunders/96ws/fs961003.htm"]Women's Ordination: Part One[/url] --[url="http://www.catholicherald.com/saunders/96ws/fs961010.htm"]Women's Ordination: Part Two[/url] --[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/DOCTRINE/ALL-MALE.TXT"]Male Priesthood[/url] --[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/SULLIVAN.TXT"]Sullivan and Infallibility[/url] --[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/LITURGY/WOMORD.TXT"]Texts on Ordination of Women[/url] --[url="http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Faith/0506-96/article4.html"]Male Priesthood[/url] --[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/VATBAN.TXT"]Vatican Ban on Women Priests is Infallible[/url] --[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/WHYWOMEN.TXT"]Why Women Can't Be Priests[/url] --[url="http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0001.html"]Women Priests? No Chance[/url] --[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/TAKINGNO.TXT"]Women's Ordination: Take No for an Answer[/url] --[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/THEOLOGY/CHRIMALE.htm"]Why Was Christ A Male & Why Did He Ordain Only Men?[/url] --[url="http://cuf.org/nonmemb/wmpriests.pdf"]Why Not Women in the Priesthood?[/url] --[url="http://www.godspy.com/reviews/Priesthood-and-the-Masculinity-of-Christ.cfm"]Priesthood and the Masculinity of Christ[/url] --[url="http://www.envoymagazine.com/backissues/4.5/canwetalk.html"]A True Catholic Feminist: A Woman's Place in the Church[/url] --[url="http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a55.htm"]Female Priests in the New Testament?[/url] --[url="http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a49.htm"]The Fittingness of Christ as Male[/url] --[url="http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a51.htm"]The Male Priesthood[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewmeister2 Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 [quote name='MagiDragon' date='Aug 29 2004, 08:41 PM'] the trouble with your poll is that it assumes the Church is fallible. If there is ever a woman priest it disproves the Church's infallibility. If the Church's infallibility is disproved, then the Church will crumble. Even if there *was* a woman that became a "valid" priest, this would invalidate the Church and the woman would only be a priest for the last few weeks of the Church's existence. Luckily, we know that the Church *IS* infallible, so we don't have to worry about it. Polls on this are irrelevant, they only show that some people disagree with the Truth. Peace, Joe [/quote] Joe, Good point, but is the Inter Insigniores infallible? That is what I am still unsure on.... If it isn't, then the Church could then say something else later on, and change its position on female Priests. Not everything is infallible the Church says, keep in mind. Also, I am not debating the issue, but rather simply curious about what people have to say. I don't think women should be priests, I agree. But what do others have to say? I have heard from my theology teacher that the process for female deacons is moving pretty quickly, does that mean, if the document Inter Insigniores isn't infallible, that we may one day have female priests? Just some thoughts. God bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCrusader Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 [quote name='Raphael' date='Aug 27 2004, 09:35 PM'] Yeah, 264 popes and they were all sexist, including the liberal ones... [/quote] The liberal ONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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