MichaelFilo Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Excuse my young yet demanding ego. For all of those who mentioned that it is people like me who lead away from the Faith (Indeed, Iceprincess, etc.), I think you should check out the debate table, specifically the thread ""the church"". Why? Because delivery boy, after reading this thread, had questions about his Faith. Do you know what happened, after he threw some common attacks against Catholics, he was answered suffeciently. He is now more curious about his religion, and plans to attend Mass, and learn more about the true Faith. So put that in your pipe and smoke it. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
follow_the_pelican Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Mikey, Mikey, Mikey, young...yes, and much to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
follow_the_pelican Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 IT IS NOT BY OUR MERIT THAT WE ARE ABLE TO OVERCOME SIN. IT IS THROUGH THE CROSS THAT THE GRACES ARE AVAILIBLE TO US. WE CAN NOT MEASURE WHO HAS IT "HARDER"CHRIST HAS SHOWN US HOW"HARD"IT IS TO GAIN ETERNAL LIFE. BY DYING ON THE CROSS...THUS BRINGING US THE GRACE TO ONE DAY SEE HIS FACE. IT IS NOT OUR PLACE TO TO SAY WHO HAS IT "HARDER"WE ARE MADE EQUAL, IT IS ONLY THROUGH THE GRACE OF THE CROSS OF CHRIST THAT WE CAN AND WILL ATTAIN ETERNAL LIFE. THEREFORE, IT IS INCORRECT TO SAY WE HAVE IT HARDER,WE DONT KNOW THE MEANING OF "HARD" SO DONT USE IT...BY SAYING WE HAVE IT "HARDER"THAT IS IN A WAY SUGGESTING THAT WE CAN GET TO HEAVEN ON OUR OWN MERIT...WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE! IT IS ONLY THROUGH THE CROSS THAT WE CAN ATTAIN ETERNAL LIFE, IT IS NOT THROUGH OUR OWN DOING SO DROP IT. in christ peace...pelican Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 (edited) I'm glad everyone was able to help Delivery Boy, Mikey, but that doesn't change the fact that things like what you said earlier in this thread have driven people further from the Church (not that you specifically have driven people away, but I have seen others say things like that and it has had that effect). Not too long ago it happened and caused some people to second guess if they were really being called to enter the Church. Praise God things got ironed out and they realized they were. Like I said, I've seen people get driven away from the Church because of certain perceived attitudes and phrases like "While I cannot say anything about anyone's future, anyone who turns away from the Truth is doomed for hell." [i][b]I only urged caution in the way you phrase things.[/b][/i] Your closing remarks are awfully snide and childish. I would expect more from you, Mikey. Edited September 3, 2004 by IcePrincessKRS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musturde Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 I didnt intentionally mean the arguement as a way to say that Protestants got it easy. I was trying to help out. I kinda sucked though... sorry if nyone got offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 (edited) [quote name='follow_the_pelican' date='Sep 2 2004, 11:10 PM'] IT IS NOT BY OUR MERIT THAT WE ARE ABLE TO OVERCOME SIN. IT IS THROUGH THE CROSS THAT THE GRACES ARE AVAILIBLE TO US. WE CAN NOT MEASURE WHO HAS IT "HARDER"CHRIST HAS SHOWN US HOW"HARD"IT IS TO GAIN ETERNAL LIFE. BY DYING ON THE CROSS...THUS BRINGING US THE GRACE TO ONE DAY SEE HIS FACE. IT IS NOT OUR PLACE TO TO SAY WHO HAS IT "HARDER"WE ARE MADE EQUAL, IT IS ONLY THROUGH THE GRACE OF THE CROSS OF CHRIST THAT WE CAN AND WILL ATTAIN ETERNAL LIFE. THEREFORE, IT IS INCORRECT TO SAY WE HAVE IT HARDER,WE DONT KNOW THE MEANING OF "HARD" SO DONT USE IT...BY SAYING WE HAVE IT "HARDER"THAT IS IN A WAY SUGGESTING THAT WE CAN GET TO HEAVEN ON OUR OWN MERIT...WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE! IT IS ONLY THROUGH THE CROSS THAT WE CAN ATTAIN ETERNAL LIFE, IT IS NOT THROUGH OUR OWN DOING SO DROP IT. in christ peace...pelican [/quote] By saying that you aren't to be tempted more so for having the fullness of Faith would be to deny it's very value, and how much against Satan it is. The very fact we have the completeness of Truth would require that we also be tempted by the devil in the biggest ways here on Earth. To say that he would tempt people who don't have the completeness of Truth, but only have parts of it, would be to reject how much Satan is against God. Satan doesn't love God, nor does he love God's friends. Since through the sacraments, we can grow in the spiritual life more so than anyone who rejects them, then we are to be tempted more, for it would make sense that he would try to bring us down. God bless, Mikey PS. It was childish and snide. It was there to prove a point. You all felt the need to say I was uncharitable, but the very comments everyone felt the need to comment upon, happened to turn someone in the right way. Tough love and being uncharitable aren't the same thing. I got my posts to be read objectivly by 2 other people who are very good Catholics, and happen to be leading phatmassers. They said I wasn't being uncharitable if you read it for what I said. Edited September 3, 2004 by MichaelFilo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
follow_the_pelican Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 I said drop it dude, no one is going to "win"...so just drop it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 I don't plan on "winning" I plan on correcting your inability to recognize that being entrusted with the knowledge of the fullness of Truth, we are also the favorite target for the one entity who's entire self is set against the Truth. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musturde Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 I dont believe anyone can actually prove it true and go into it fully without getting very confused. This isn't really a subject that's worth argueing, it's just a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 I don't understand whats so hard about understanding this. The devil hates the Truth, and completely hates the complete Truth. God entrusted Catholics with the knowledge of the fullness of Truth. Satan would naturally tempt those who have the fullness of Truth, more so. The sacraments help, indeed, but they also give Satan a reason to try harder to get us to stop turning to them, and watching our fall. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musturde Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Yes but then the sacraments take you away from temptation and make you stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 The sacraments are indeed a great help, and they help us against temptation, but that means that Satan just ups his attempt to persuade us away. Again, Satan didn't work hard to get the scribes to hate Jesus. Satan however, had to work to trick the apostles, who held more of the Truth, and so had to work harder. How do I prove this? The scribes quickly hated Jesus, but it took extremem measures for Satan to get Peter to deny Christ. You have the fullness of Faith, you are to be put through more testing than anyone else. Given more, so you are expected more. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
follow_the_pelican Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 Mikey, learn how to read...NOT BY OUR MERIT!!!!! I see you are a devoted catholic,that is good. But you keep refering to our battles with the devil. When was the last time you went up against him? one-on-one. It would be impossible to beat him!!!! It is only through the cross that we are able to over come sin in our lives. Yes we have the fullness of the truth...dude, you are not going to listen so why should I continue to waste my time on this post? You need to remember that you have know streangth except the streangth that Christ gives you...and it is NOT BY YOUR MERIT!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 [quote name='follow_the_pelican' date='Sep 2 2004, 11:10 PM'] IT IS NOT BY OUR MERIT THAT WE ARE ABLE TO OVERCOME SIN. IT IS THROUGH THE CROSS THAT THE GRACES ARE AVAILIBLE TO US. WE CAN NOT MEASURE WHO HAS IT "HARDER"CHRIST HAS SHOWN US HOW"HARD"IT IS TO GAIN ETERNAL LIFE. BY DYING ON THE CROSS...THUS BRINGING US THE GRACE TO ONE DAY SEE HIS FACE. IT IS NOT OUR PLACE TO TO SAY WHO HAS IT "HARDER"WE ARE MADE EQUAL, IT IS ONLY THROUGH THE GRACE OF THE CROSS OF CHRIST THAT WE CAN AND WILL ATTAIN ETERNAL LIFE. THEREFORE, IT IS INCORRECT TO SAY WE HAVE IT HARDER,WE DONT KNOW THE MEANING OF "HARD" SO DONT USE IT...BY SAYING WE HAVE IT "HARDER"THAT IS IN A WAY SUGGESTING THAT WE CAN GET TO HEAVEN ON OUR OWN MERIT...WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE! IT IS ONLY THROUGH THE CROSS THAT WE CAN ATTAIN ETERNAL LIFE, IT IS NOT THROUGH OUR OWN DOING SO DROP IT. in christ peace...pelican [/quote] To say that it isn't by our own merit that we overcome sin would be saying that if Christ didn't exist, we don't have the free will to say no to sin? Jesus died on the cross so that our sins maybe forgiven. Jesus died on the cross so that we may have a chance at eternal life. Jesus didn't die on the cross to give us free will. We have always had that. However, the question then would be, who would Satan go after, the Protestant who rejects the most important 2 sacraments, or the Catholic, who has the fullness of Faith, and who will aspire to great things like sainthood if he isn't tempted? Then one may ask, who will he tempt more, the one who knows not all of the doctrines of Christ, or the one who does? His goal is so that none will be saved. He wants no one to be friends with God. It would only be natural he goes after those who are closer, and have unlimited potential to grow in God's love than to those who are limited because of their beliefs about God? The scarmanets were addressed. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musturde Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 "I was reading a book the other day written in the Middle Ages. It claimed that the two times God is with you is when you are having a good time and when you are being tempted. God will never allow the devil to tempt you more than you can handle." homily at Mass. Now yes, we could be more tempted but we're more able to handle it. Since Christ will not allow anyone any temptation more than he can bear. See what I mean? this is a useless arguement. What is it going to prove? It reminds me of the rapture arguements that go on every day. There is a possibility of it but who cares whether it really happens or not untill it really happens? We should argue more about stuff that actually effects us, not stuff that's gunna get people angry and leads to no gain. All of this is in God's hands in the end. Pax Christi, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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