MichaelFilo Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Protestantism is clearly the easy way out. You are not called to a life of holyness, but called to a life of laxity, of not caring for Christ's edict, as you are always saved, so what matter is it of yours if you carry out His will or not. Protestantism is a heresy, and if I had any say in it, should be fought on all fronts, with the other works of the devil. Leaving the truth (dissenting) when you have exposed to the fullness of Faith does result in being doomed to hell. You seem to have been born Protestant, so the heresy you follow is by all means, not really an option you chose, but your parents chose for you. Leaving the Catholic Faith does result in damnination. If he fully understood the Faith, and chose to reject it, he's not better than those in John 6:66. This thread, however isn't about Protestantism. The Saint would seem Catholic, by his name, and the rosary, however, he doesn't seem to be misleading, in the sense that he teaches things against the Church. While I cannot say, it's cool to listen to him, lest he does say something contradictory to our Faith, I think his music is, like other Protestant rap, isn't anything awful to be avoided at all costs. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabdaEclectic Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 (edited) [quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Aug 29 2004, 10:57 AM'] Protestantism is clearly the easy way out. You are not called to a life of holyness, but called to a life of laxity, of not caring for Christ's edict, as you are always saved, so what matter is it of yours if you carry out His will or not. Protestantism is a heresy, and if I had any say in it, should be fought on all fronts, with the other works of the devil. Leaving the truth (dissenting) when you have exposed to the fullness of Faith does result in being doomed to hell. You seem to have been born Protestant, so the heresy you follow is by all means, not really an option you chose, but your parents chose for you. Leaving the Catholic Faith does result in damnination. If he fully understood the Faith, and chose to reject it, he's not better than those in John 6:66. This thread, however isn't about Protestantism. The Saint would seem Catholic, by his name, and the rosary, however, he doesn't seem to be misleading, in the sense that he teaches things against the Church. While I cannot say, it's cool to listen to him, lest he does say something contradictory to our Faith, I think his music is, like other Protestant rap, isn't anything awful to be avoided at all costs. God bless, Mikey [/quote] Wow. I'll let the people who know me speak to you about who and what I'm about. You don't even know me bro. For the record, I was "christened" Catholic as a baby. Then I was "baptized" through the Father, Son and Holy Ghost at 10. Now, I love my Catholic brothers and sisters, so I won't lambaste the doctrine out of respect and knowledge that we both serve the same God...but I saw some holes in the doctrine and changed my theological thinking. But I can assure you...I WON'T be going to hell brudda. again...Wow. Blessings Fab Edited August 29, 2004 by FabdaEclectic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inDEED Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 It is thinking like yours, MichaelFilo - that pushes people FROM Christ and His Catholic Church rather than draw them closer...It's a SHAME that you believe you're helping to reveal TRUTH and in doing so, are bringing hearts closer to Christ... This past weekend, the wife and I were walking down Mill Avenue - the popular college street here in Tempe and we had an encounter with some "streetpreachers" like the ones mentioned in Point 5's track... Once the young lady we encountered found out that we were Catholic, her judgement on us and our souls IMMEDIATELY cast us OUT of heaven and into HELL...She knew NOTHING about US, who we were, our souls, our actions, our beliefs, NOTHING...but, she DID know that we called ourselves, "Catholic"... I can only see the same thing happening here with the jugdement of this cat called, "The Saint"... Granted - as a Catholic person and emcee, I don't agree with him holding a Rosary on the front of his CD...but, I can tell you that WE as CATHOLICS CANNOT immediately say that he's destined for hell for turning away from the Church... I know a little bit about Fab...mostly because he MASTERED the entire FIRST Massmatics compilation, provided some DOPE BEATS (that he typically makes his living charging for) for FREE, and even donated $ to see the project happen...Why? Because it is HIS intention to promote Christ and the Kingdom of God in any way possible...EVEN if it's not directly in line with his own Christian belief.... MichaelFilo...I've seen A LOT of your posts around the Muzik section - many of them tend to cause separation rather than attempt to bring people together...My suggestion is that you recognize your place as a NEWBIE in this particular phorum and try to really understand WHO people are and WHERE they're coming from before you cast them to the fires of hell... My .75 cents... P.S. Fab - I love you, bro and thank God for your help and participation in our efforts...May Christ continue to bless you and yours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 just a friendly reminder Michael ....please Read the pinned topic in the debate table cuz our man in black, with a white collar, aka Fr. Pontifex...speaks about what your last post was about. I just moved and pinned that topic yesterday..... [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=13221"]here[/url] Fab is right, so lets keep that in mind and just pray for all our brothers and sisters in Christ, since we can all use prayers, no matter who are.... as for all the judgment talk....lets leave that up for God since thats His department and His alone. also heres something to read about phatmass.. [i]We welcome religions of all faiths and diversity, and encourage ecumenical dialogue in a spirit of charity.[/i] Without love or charity, everything is in vain. God bless and much love to Fab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 (edited) Can we read what I said? The Saint, if fully shown the Truth, and denies it, is doomed to hell. I did not assume that he was or wasn't , and so I didn't say he's going to hell. Leaving the Catholic Church, in full knowledge of the Truth does lead to damnation. Since I don't know about if you have or haven't, then I can't say anything. I do not plan on pushing anyone from the Faith, nor did I claim anyone in here is going to hell. I said, becareful of converted people, who were once Catholic, as they often times make the serious attacks against the Church. That is why, I said be careful with the music. Protestantism is a heresy. Followers of Protestantism, if born into it, are not heretics, as they did not dissent from the Church. They merely follow one. This is no fault of their own. I don't understand how preaching Church teaching will ever make anyone leave the Church. The Church is an uncompromising Teacher of Faith... not some watered down version of the Truth. I have not condemned anyone to hell, but spoke with the full knowledge of the Church's teaching. Anymore attempts to suggest I said anyone is going to hell, should be thought through, and thought through again. I cannot condemn, there is only one eternal Judge. I can only say what that same Judge has said through His Church. All dissenters from the Faith, in full knowledge of the Faith, are damned to hell unless they repent and reconcile. Then I gave my opinion about "The Saint" and said to becareful when listening to music that is written by an ex-Catholic, as it just so happens that many of them feel a hate for the Church. I didn't say all, nor did I say none. I said many. This is not some unfounded assumption, but one that comes from experience. Mr. Bro Adam could gladly tell you. Icthus is a constant example. Again, be careful of those who chose heresy against Truth, but I do not claim that I know who any of these people are. God bless, Mikey Edited August 29, 2004 by MichaelFilo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 okay well, its hard since over a message board one post can be read in 10,030 different ways and could sound as if one is judging another.... thats why Pontifex's letter and prayer for one another rocks! and should be read! pax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 (edited) I'd like to take this post to note, seperatly, thank you Fab for the first CD. I appreciate all the work you did on it, and I am very glad you did help. All of us at Phatmass owe you our gratitude. When I say the stuff I do, I do not have any intention to offend, nor do I have any intention of not saying something lest I do. I use tact when I speak when possible, and I didn't mean to make it look like I condemned you to hell. God bless, Mikey PS. Flowry, I tried to make it clear. Sometimes reading things once isn't enough. I don't think it's at all fair to say it's hard. I think it's very fair to say that every post should be read with an attempt to understand it. If I ever condemn anyone, than may God make me realize so that I can repent. I am no judge. Edited August 29, 2004 by MichaelFilo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 [quote]PS. Flowry, I tried to make it clear. Sometimes reading things once isn't enough. I don't think it's at all fair to say it's hard. I think it's very fair to say that every post should be read with an attempt to understand it. If I ever condemn anyone, than may God make me realize so that I can repent. I am no judge. [/quote] i understand michael but because i know what you were saying and in what content........others mght not, and might result in damage/harm instead of good (which was Fr. Pontifex's whole point).... when sharing with others, its important to realize this...... anyways... thanks for reading.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 I read it when I got onto PM. It was a very clear and concise statement. Thats why I avoid calling anyone heretic. However, his letter doesn't say that not one is a heretic (clearly Martin Luther was one, and it wouldn't be wrong to say he was, even ifyou lived in that time). But I understand the jist of his point, so I avoid reffering to anyone as a heretic, unless I truely know them, and know as much. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 [quote name='inDEED' date='Aug 29 2004, 12:38 PM'] It is thinking like yours, MichaelFilo - that pushes people FROM Christ and His Catholic Church rather than draw them closer... [/quote] i think what im trying to say indeed already did......lol pax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 [quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Aug 29 2004, 10:01 AM'] While I cannot say anything about anyone's future, anyone who turns away from the Truth is doomed for hell. Be careful what you listen to. [/quote] Indeed, you took the words right outta my mouth.... the first paragraph in particular because I have seen that exact scenario happen in the past. Mikey, I understand you didn't mean to condemn anyone to hell but its statements like the above which make it sound like you [b]are[/b] doing just that. In one breath you seem to say its not your place to judge and in the next that they are doomed. Maybe next time you need to ponder the way you phrase things a minute or two longer before posting, as Flowery pointed out its extremely easy to misread written words on forum. Just some food for thought. God Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabdaEclectic Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Much love to you all no matter what our doctrinal differences are. Mikey, when I read your post, you used the word "you" and "heresy" a couple of times, which to me insinuated that I was a heretic. My friend, I along with many Protestants are not heretics. There are a few of us left that simply want people to know GOD - whether or not they pray via Mary or not. The whle point is to bring as many people into the Kingdom as possible. To me it doesn't matter whether or not you take the Eucharist every week or not.....Do you have a relationship with Jesus Christ? A REAL one? Does he speak to you? Do you listen, respomnd and act? Then that is all that matters to me..... and my opinion doesn't even count! God's does. If we simply continue to love God and try to bring his word to the forefront, doctrinal differences won't even matter...I promise. Much love to Lil Flower and Indeed for the love. Blessings to you all. Fab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Iceprincess, thats not better than CatholicCrusader saying we shouldn't bless anyone who isn't Catholic. He totally forgot to read the first part of the verse. You cannot condemn what I say as possibly mislead, if you don't read the whole thing. Please read that entire line you quoted. I specifically tried to show that I am no judge. The second part of the comment comes from the council of Trent, and is not something I made up. I take extra care to never condemn anyone. I do not call anyone a lier, unless they lie. I do not call a theif unless they steal. I cannot call anyone a heretic, and I didn't either. I just said what a heretic was, and called Protestant a heresy (please someone tell me I'm wrong). If I said anything that would somehow be uncharitable, by pointing out Church teaching, and showing that many ex-Catholics turn into anti-Catholics, then please tell me. Otherwise, I'd appreciate voicing Church teaching, and observations to not be deemed as misleading. I'd hate to lead anyone to the Catholic Church that says heretics who are unrepented are saved. That is not the Catholic Church. Again, thank you Fab for all the work you did. Indeed, please tell me how the lady screaming your going to hell, and me constantly pointing out that I don't know the fate of anyone (but the canonized saints), is the same? I will state again, my view on "The Saint" is that he may have nothing against the Church, be careful with his music. I do believe this is what this thread is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Mikey, I read what you said in its entirety several times over and I believe I acknowledged that you did not intend to condemn anyone. I never said you called anyone a heretic or a liar. Please re-read what I said. I only urged caution in what you post because it CAN be misunderstood, clearly Fab and others took some offense at what you wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabdaEclectic Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 [quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Aug 29 2004, 02:30 PM'] I cannot call anyone a heretic, and I didn't either. I just said what a heretic was, and called Protestant a heresy (please someone tell me I'm wrong). [/quote] Ok.....You're wrong.....(in your thinking and your wordplay) You believe Protestantism is heresy, based on what you have been taught. I am a Protestant. Therefore according to your beliefs, that makes me a Heretic - which I clearly am not. Although you never came out and said "Fab, you're a heretic", in a round about way, you did bro. A+B=C I could say "Cincinnati Reds fans are idiots"...and in the next breath say "But Michael, it's not your fault you like the Reds, your parents liked them and you just fell into it. ".....now....you tell me homey. Did I or did I not call you an idiot by those two statements without clearly saying it? This is the kind of B.S. that I wrote about in the "Pray for Mason Betha" thread. This type of organized religion attitude mixed with Hypocrisy. Fact is, you don't know the hearts of [b]any[/b] man Michael, including your own. None of us do. But you stand behind your theology (taught to you by another man, no less) with a self righteous and arrogant attitude. It's cool to be hardcore for your religion...But bro we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Including you my friend. I'm so glad that God is God and not some man on this earth. [quote]I will state again, my view on "The Saint" is that he may have nothing against the Church, be careful with his music. I do believe this is what this thread is about. [/quote] I'm real sorry homey, but you hijacked this thread into a heretic discussion. Seriosly bro...let's quit playing this doctrinal and semantics game here. I serve God, do you? If so, let's quash this and continue to build the kingdom, ok? Fab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts