I Dont Believe Kerry Is Catholic

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Does somebody have the ski suit picture of Kerry at Mass?

[jasJis]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Aug 24 2004, 09:20 AM']

I remember feeling that way when Gore was running. Maybe God will rock a miracle and things will get better instead of worse. [/quote]
I agree. Can you say "chad"? I believe in God's intervention...

[Sinner]

I must say Ditto to IronMonk's statement above. I bear true witness.... not false. His following of the Catholic Faith is carp.

[Good Friday]

[quote name='ironmonk']Kerry IS NOT Catholic in deed or word.[/quote]
Your Church disagrees with you, but that's never stopped you before. A person baptized in the Catholic Church continues to be Catholic, even in a state of heresy or schism, until he formally repudiates the Catholic Church and all that the Church teaches. In the absence of such a repudiation, saying that he is not Catholic is a lie, it is libelous, and it is bearing false witness against your neighbor.

If you'd like to verify with a priest or scholar that a person must formally repudiate the faith in order to apostasize and thus be considered non-Catholic, please feel free to do so. I doubt you will, because then you'll have to admit you're sinning, and we couldn't have that.

[MorphRC]

[quote]until he formally repudiates the Catholic Church and all that the Church teaches. [/quote]

Your wrong. Once you follow a heresy, especially knowingly, you cut yourself from catholic unity. And especially on the topic of Abortion, there isnt a option, you support life or you dont. He doesnt, therefore he goes directly against the Church, and he knows it, and has stated it. Therefore he is a heretic, and NOT Catholic.

Ironmonk is correct.

Edited August 28, 2004 by MorphRC

[Good Friday]

[quote name='MorphRC']Your wrong. Once you follow a heresy, especially knowingly, you cut yourself from catholic unity.[/quote]
No, I'm not wrong. And neither are you. Yes, heresy does cut you off from Catholic unity; it does not, however, make you cease to be Catholic. Heresy and apostasy are two different sins for a reason. Heresy is denying orthodox Catholic teaching, apostasy is repudiating the Church and [b]all[/b] that she teaches. If they were the same sin, there would not be two different words for it, would there?

Also, I don't follow the phorum as closely as I used to, but weren't you a Protestant about a month ago? I'd think that would make it seem somewhat inappropriate to you to pontificate on who is and isn't Catholic. Wooden Beam, meet Splinter.

[Good Friday]

[quote name='Definition of Apostasy' date=' Catholic Encyclopedia']Perfidiæ (Apostasy) is the complete and voluntary abandonment of the Christian religion, whether the apostate embraces another religion such as Paganism, Judaism, Mohammedanism, etc., or merely makes profession of Naturalism, Rationalism, etc. The heretic differs from the apostate in that he only denies one or more of the doctrines of revealed religion, whereas the apostate denies the religion itself, a sin which has always been looked upon as one of the most grievous.[/quote]

[MorphRC]

I know what Apostacy is, I did it a couple months ago.
I know what Heresy is, Havent done that.

Kerry wants communion, so he accepts that teaching, yet he goes against abortion.

Therefore hes a heretic. You cant pick and choose what u wanna believe.

[Good Friday]

[quote name='MorphRC']Therefore hes a heretic. You cant pick and choose what u wanna believe.[/quote]
No one's disputing that he's a heretic, but he does not cease to be Catholic as a heretic.

Edited August 28, 2004 by Good Friday

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Good Friday' date='Aug 27 2004, 09:48 PM'][quote name='MorphRC']Therefore hes a heretic. You cant pick and choose what u wanna believe.[/quote]
No one's disputing that he's a heretic, but he does not cease to be Catholic as a heretic.[/quote]
To be Catholic a man must be visibly bound to the Church through the "profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion." [Vatican 2, [u]Lumen Gentium[/u], no. 14] So, if a man dissents from the teaching of the Magisterium and falls into heresy, he is no longer in full communion with the Catholic Church, and as a consequence he ceases to be a Catholic. This does not mean that he is no longer baptized, because baptism marks the soul with an indelible character, and the possession of this indelible mark means that he is in some sense still related to the Church, but it does not make him a Catholic.

God bless,
Todd

[White Knight]

Its not my place, to judge him or not, But in my personal opinion if one doesn't practice the Catholic Teachings/Faith, then your not a Catholic, only by Title are you assuming the Catholic ways, but thats not true, you have to practicing the Catholic Faith in order to be a True Catholic, same way with Protestant Christians.


John Kerry, in My Opinion is not a Catholic. He may take the Title, but that doesn't make it that your a Catholic.


A Catholic or Protestant who takes the Title, but does nothing with his or her faith is just a "Title Taker"

[MorphRC]

[quote name='Good Friday' date='Aug 28 2004, 03:18 PM'] [quote name='MorphRC']Therefore hes a heretic. You cant pick and choose what u wanna believe.[/quote]
No one's disputing that he's a heretic, but he does not cease to be Catholic as a heretic. [/quote]
What?

Thats an oxymoron. You cant be Catholic, refuse basic teachings, be a heretic and a Catholic as well.

[MorphRC]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Aug 28 2004, 03:31 PM'] No one's disputing that he's a heretic, but he does not cease to be Catholic as a heretic.[/QUOTE]
To be Catholic a man must be visibly bound to the Church through the "profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion." [Vatican 2, [u]Lumen Gentium[/u], no. 14] So, if a man dissents from the teaching of the Magisterium and falls into heresy, he is no longer in full communion with the Catholic Church, and as a consequence he ceases to be a Catholic. This does not mean that he is no longer baptized, because baptism marks the soul with an indelible character, and the possession of this indelible mark means that he is in some sense still related to the Church, but it does not make him a Catholic.

God bless,
Todd [/quote]
ty

[CatholicCrusader]

[quote]Someone using the faith for votes, is not Catholic.
[/quote]

I am against Kerry as much as anyone, but to say he is "using the Faith for votes" is to judge his disposition and his intention, which we cannot judge. We can say this and this and this say he is not a Catholic, and this and this and this say he has been flaunting that he is a Catholic. It seems that he is doing it just for votes. You can say that, but to judge something you could never possibly know for a fact is the application of "judge not that you may not be judged". That is misquoted nearly every time it is quoted, but it does apply here. We cannot judge someone's motive or intention rashly.

Also, I assume you are not saying it is wrong to use Faith as a reason for election. If a person were a faithful Catholic, there is no question that he would get my vote. Pope Leo XIII condemned a secular state. Anyone who will do all he can to bring back the one true Church, outside of which NO ONE is saved, to the government, I am all for. (Of course, Kerry is not dong that, but I was addressing the use of the Faith as a reason to elect a person as a concept not in this particular instance.)

[Good Friday]

From a Phatmass Church Scholar: [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=18975"]http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=18975[/url]

[quote name='BLAZEr']A Catholic never really ceases to be a Catholic. Even Apostasy is ultimately a sin that can be forgiven and the person allowed back into communion.

I think what you are referring to here is when a Catholic can present himself/herself as a Catholic in good standing. This is trickier to define. A divorced and remarried Catholic is not a Catholic in good standing. A Catholic whose life or work contradicts the teachings of the Church is not a Catholic in good standing. For example, an active homosexual who refuses to accept the teachings of the Church or someone who works for an abortion provider or, it can be argued, a Catholic politician who actively supports abortion and liberalizing of the abortion laws in their country.

These people have not renounced their baptism (as has an apostate) but they have practically (materially) renounced it by their lives (sin) and beliefs (heresy), and they are certainly outside of the Communion of the Church.

Those who are in Schism are also outside of the communion, and certainly those who originally break with the Church committ a sin, however their children would not be in sin, although still in schism and not in communion.


I think it would be a sin against Charity to call anyone who was baptised a Catholic "not Catholic." However, it is important in a culture such as ours where many people claim to be Catholic but in fact are either apostates or heretics (think here Frances Kissling of Catholics for Free Choice) to make a distinction between those who are faithful Catholics and those who Catholic in name only.[/quote]
Knock yourselves out.