Justification

[MorphRC]

This is why Baptism is so important at birth? it starts a sort of 'chain reaction' towards God?

[p0lar_bear]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Aug 23 2004, 02:35 PM'] This is why Baptism is so important at birth? it starts a sort of 'chain reaction' towards God? [/quote]
according to Calvinists or according to the Church?

[MorphRC]

Church. Sorry

[phatcatholic]

you are correct Morph. it is God's actualizing grace that prompts the parents of an infant to baptize their young one. this same grace prompts non-Christians to be baptized into the Church. once we become members of the Body of Christ through this baptism we begin a life-long process of nurturing and guidance through the grace of the seven sacraments. it is our hope that through our participation in these sacraments we will grow closer and closer towards perfect union with Him.

all of this....................through/via/because of/by grace.

as for the specific topic of imputed vs. infused righteousness, the following articles may be of help to you:

[b]Infused --vs.-- Imputed Righteousness[/b]
--[url="http://home.inreach.com/bstanley/trent.htm"]Council of Trent: Decrees on Justification[/url]
--[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ195.HTM"]Council of Trent: Canons on Justification[/url]
--[url="http://www.cin.org/mateo/mat93031.html"]Justification[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/JUSTFNAT.TXT"]The Nature of Justification[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic-defense.com/righteousness.htm"]Protestant/Catholic Discussion on Imputed Righteousness[/url]
--[url="http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/abraham.html"][b]Romans 4[/b]: One-Time Imputation or a Process?[/url]
--[url="http://www.globalserve.net/~bumblebee/ecclesia/justific.htm"]The Bible Defends Justification[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic-defense.com/justification.htm"]On Justification[/url]
--[url="http://home.nyc.rr.com/mysticalrose/grace3.html"]Grace and the Divinization of Humanity[/url]

* [b]note:[/b] search within the following articles for the word "righteousness" to read only the pertinent information (Edit....Find...."righteousness"....Find Next).
--[url="http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/2corinthians.html"]Righteousness in [b]2 Corinthians[/b][/url]
--[url="http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/colossians.html"]Righteousness in [b]Colossians[/b], and [b]1 & 2 Thessalonians[/b][/url]
--[url="http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/hebrews.html"]Righteousness in [b]Hebrews[/b][/url]
--[url="http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/galatians.html"]Righteousness in [b]Galatians[/b] and [b]1 Corinthians[/b][/url]
--[url="http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/ephesians.html"]Righteousness in [b]Ephesians[/b] and [b]Phillippians[/b][/url]
--[url="http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/1Timothy.html"]Righteousness in [b]1 & 2 Timothy[/b], and [b]Titus[/b][/url]


pax christi,
phatcatholic

[ICTHUS]

So, what's this from the Council of Trent (I don't know the quote, sorry, but I know its there) that a man must do good works to prepare himself to be saved?

[megamattman1]

I think Catholics don't understand the best argument of protestants as far as justification is concerened. I think they think that justification is where God says a sinner is really clean. Basically, God is lying. This is true for a lot of Protestants, then protestantism is pretty much all over the board.

So I would imagine that the better argument would be that God says you are clean by Jesus in that you are clean from the consequences of your sins, not that you are yourself clean. Maybe I'm just rationalizing protestantism. Incidentally then the better protestant would even say that works are necessary, just not in justifying ourselves. They are necessary to anyone with true faith.

[MorphRC]

Thanks Phat!

[Guest JeffCR07]

[quote]So, what's this from the Council of Trent (I don't know the quote, sorry, but I know its there) that a man must do good works to prepare himself to be saved? [/quote]

It really isnt that hard. If Catholic doctrine and theology is anything, it is unified. It is a cohesion of a myriad of ideas, a fitting together of multiple pieces to make one puzzle. Faith and Works are one in the same, they are intrinsically tied together by a true love of Christ. A man who professes this Love with his lips or understands it in his mind, but fails to keep it in his heart and live it in his deeds is like an incomplete puzzle of salvation. To seperate works from faith (in the context of christian love) is like splitting a man in half and expecting him to walk. It is like trying to imagine Love without Patience, or Love without Kindness: they are intrinsic to each other.

Ultimately, it is this cohesion of doctrine, this unity of theology, that Apotheoun was explaining when he said (and rightly) that Justification and Sanctification are coincident with each other. Just as Love in Christ is always Patient, and Patience in Christ is always Loving, so too is Faith in Christ always working and Works in Christ always Faithful, and so too is Justification always Sanctifying and Sanctification always Justifying, for each of these things is, in reality, an inescapable unity.

- Your Brother in Christ, Jeff

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Aug 23 2004, 05:22 PM'] So, what's this from the Council of Trent (I don't know the quote, sorry, but I know its there) that a man must do good works to prepare himself to be saved? [/quote]
the direct quote would be helpful

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='megamattman1' date='Aug 23 2004, 03:44 PM']I think Catholics don't understand the best argument of protestants as far as justification is concerened. I think they think that justification is where God says a sinner is really clean. Basically, God is lying. This is true for a lot of Protestants, then protestantism is pretty much all over the board.

So I would imagine that the better argument would be that God says you are clean by Jesus in that you are clean from the consequences of your sins, not that you are yourself clean. Maybe I'm just rationalizing protestantism. Incidentally then the better protestant would even say that works are necessary, just not in justifying ourselves. They are necessary to anyone with true faith.[/quote]
This view of the Protestant doctrine is still problematic, because the underlying cause of man's separation from God is not a "thing," it is not an "existing" quality, but is instead a lack of sanctifying or deifying grace, and so this cause must be addressed first in order for the effects flowing from it to be removed. In other words, man must be restored to a state of sanctifying (i.e. deifying) grace in order for mortal sin to be removed. Both the restoration of the state of grace and the removal of sins are necessary, but the latter is caused by the former. One cannot remain in a state of mortal sin and have his sins removed, and so the Protestant doctrine is ultimately nonsensical.

As far as the works of a Christian are concerned; they are not his works alone, for it is God working [i]in[/i], [i]with[/i], and [i]through[/i] the justified man, and so, the works performed increase the state of his justification before God. The life of a Christian is analogous to the [i]Hypostatic Union[/i] of the two natures in the one person of Christ, because just as Christ's actions were [i]theandric[/i] in nature, so too, the works of a man in a state of grace are works of God and man. Justification is an ongoing process of assimilation to God. Moreover, justification and sanctification are inseparably bound together, and the ultimate goal of this entire process is the deification of man. As St. Augustine said, "God became man, so that man might become God." [St. Augustine, [u]Sermo 13 de tempore[/u]]

God bless,
Todd

[Briguy]

Hi Folks, This is my first post here so just wanted to say hi, so "HI"

Anyway, just a quick little note on justification. Being justified to God comes only by faith/belief. To Justify is "to Prove". Our works justify us before men not God. Our works are the "proof" to the world who we are and to whom we belong. We can prove nothing to God because he knows the heart fully. He does not have to see us do things to know if we are His, he knows because he knows all. Justification to God can only be obtained by faith, based on that simple truth. I do believe justification and sanctification are one time events in terms of our salvation but they are more then that in terms of how our actions effect how we are seen by others. I will stop there for now. Take care

In Christ,
Brian

Edited August 25, 2004 by Briguy

[MorphRC]

Justify / Justified / Justification. [b]Gk.[/b] [i]Diakioun[/i] "to make upright".

[Briguy]

Hi Morph Hope your having a great day so far. I got the following when I checked the definition. Based on below, I stick to my answer. What do you think about my statement that God knows all? and that we do our works to show others our faith, not God? Let me know your thoughts. Thanks much

In Christ,
Brian

p.s. Going camping with family today so may not be able to respond until after the weekend!

Cambridge:
justify [Show phonetics]
verb [T]
to give or to be a good reason for

From Dictionary.com
jus·ti·fy v. jus·ti·fied, jus·ti·fy·ing, jus·ti·fies
v. tr.
1. To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid: justified each budgetary expense as necessary; anger that is justified by the circumstances.
2. To declare free of blame; absolve.
3. To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin. Used of God.

Eastmans:
Justification - a forensic term, opposed to condemnation. As regards its nature, it is the judicial act of God, by which he pardons all the sins of those who believe in Christ, and accounts, accepts, and treats them as righteous in the eye of the law, i.e., as conformed to all its demands. In addition to the pardon (q.v.) of sin, justification declares that all the claims of the law are satisfied in respect of the justified. It is the act of a judge and not of a sovereign. The law is not relaxed or set aside, but is declared to be fulfilled in the strictest sense; and so the person justified is declared to be entitled to all the advantages and rewards arising from perfect obedience to the law (Rom. 5:1-10).
It proceeds on the imputing or crediting to the believer by God himself of the perfect righteousness, active and passive, of his Representative and Surety, Jesus Christ (Rom. 10:3-9). Justification is not the forgiveness of a man without righteousness, but a declaration that he possesses a righteousness which perfectly and for ever satisfies the law, namely, Christ's righteousness (2 Cor. 5:21; Rom. 4:6-8).
The sole condition on which this righteousness is imputed or credited to the believer is faith in or on the Lord Jesus Christ. Faith is called a "condition," not because it possesses any merit, but only because it is the instrument, the only instrument by which the soul appropriates or apprehends Christ and his righteousness (Rom. 1:17; 3:25, 26; 4:20, 22; Phil. 3:8-11; Gal. 2:16).

justification
Encyclopædia Britannica Article

in Christian theology, either (1) the act by which God moves a person from the state of sin (injustice) to the state of grace (justice); (2) the change in a person's condition as he moves from a state of sin to a state of righteousness; or (3) especially in Protestantism, the act of acquittal whereby God gives contrite sinners the status of the righteous.

[MorphRC]

It doesnt give the Greek. It doesnt even explain what language it comes from. Ill answer back in an hour. Roy and HG are on.

[MorphRC]

Justification - Judicial Thinking
Simple, Basic Teaching of Justification

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